1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.BZ

2
00:00:07,059 --> 00:00:08,192
DIRECTOR:
Okay. We're rolling.

3
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Compliments to Feromoon:
https://fero.tips and feromoon.info

4
00:00:13,766 --> 00:00:15,866
"She's a cool..."

5
00:00:15,901 --> 00:00:17,401
"...blonde..."

6
00:00:17,436 --> 00:00:19,603
"...scheming bitch."

7
00:00:19,638 --> 00:00:22,639
"She makes my body twitch."

8
00:00:22,675 --> 00:00:24,975
"Walking down the corridor,
you can hear her..."

9
00:00:25,011 --> 00:00:27,211
"...stilettos click."

10
00:00:27,246 --> 00:00:31,582
"I want her so much,
I feel sick."

11
00:00:31,617 --> 00:00:35,686
(opening of "High School
Confidential" playing)

12
00:00:39,191 --> 00:00:44,228
(audience cheering)

13
00:00:46,132 --> 00:00:49,066
Peaches: When I heard
a song about a woman

14
00:00:49,101 --> 00:00:52,302
lusting after another woman,

15
00:00:52,338 --> 00:00:54,405
I was like, "Wow!"

16
00:00:55,441 --> 00:00:57,474
Rufus Wainwright:
That was so far ahead

17
00:00:57,510 --> 00:00:59,343
of what was going on
at the time.

18
00:00:59,378 --> 00:01:01,311
Notorious Carole Pope.

19
00:01:01,347 --> 00:01:04,782
Jann Arden: She shocked people
on a regular basis.

20
00:01:04,817 --> 00:01:07,418
They thought, "Oh,
she'll never be mainstream."

21
00:01:07,453 --> 00:01:10,154
Female vocalist of the year,
Carole Pope!

22
00:01:10,189 --> 00:01:12,189
(audience cheering)

23
00:01:12,224 --> 00:01:14,825
We'd like to welcome
our special guest, Rough Trade!

24
00:01:14,860 --> 00:01:16,260
(audience applauding)

25
00:01:16,295 --> 00:01:18,095
Reporter: Ten years
and five albums later,

26
00:01:18,130 --> 00:01:19,630
they're on
the verge of full-fledged,

27
00:01:19,665 --> 00:01:20,864
international star status.

28
00:01:20,900 --> 00:01:22,433
(audience cheering)

29
00:01:22,468 --> 00:01:25,636
Jann Arden: Every little
mini lesbian in the world,

30
00:01:25,671 --> 00:01:27,137
they loved her songs.

31
00:01:27,173 --> 00:01:29,206
George Stroumboulopoulos:
Even if you didn't connect to

32
00:01:29,241 --> 00:01:31,975
that part of it,
you respected and connected to

33
00:01:32,011 --> 00:01:34,812
the upheaval
that it was creating.

34
00:01:34,847 --> 00:01:37,281
k.d. lang:
I was like, "Holy shit."

35
00:01:37,316 --> 00:01:39,016
Golden road
had been laid out.

36
00:01:39,051 --> 00:01:40,250
Yeah!

37
00:01:41,253 --> 00:01:44,221
¶ Tremor, a big... ¶

38
00:01:44,256 --> 00:01:45,823
Peaches:
Every song was dripping with

39
00:01:45,858 --> 00:01:47,491
the underbelly
of sexuality,

40
00:01:47,526 --> 00:01:51,028
but also just feeling
comfortable with who you are.

41
00:01:51,063 --> 00:01:55,632
k.d. lang: Her embodiment of
who she was is her superpower

42
00:01:55,668 --> 00:01:57,534
and paved the way
for people like me.

43
00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:00,704
Woman: Everyone,
put your hands together.

44
00:02:00,739 --> 00:02:04,441
Kevan Staples and Carole Pope!

45
00:02:04,477 --> 00:02:05,375
(audience cheering, applauding)

46
00:02:05,411 --> 00:02:06,710
Thank you!

47
00:02:06,745 --> 00:02:10,280
¶

48
00:02:17,590 --> 00:02:22,259
¶

49
00:02:40,679 --> 00:02:44,148
Hello, and welcome to
my fabulous Hollywood pad.

50
00:02:44,183 --> 00:02:48,118
This is the pool I never use,
because it's not heated.

51
00:02:48,154 --> 00:02:49,987
This is the traffic.

52
00:02:51,490 --> 00:02:53,924
That is like living
on a drag strip.

53
00:02:53,959 --> 00:02:55,993
This is the apartment.

54
00:02:56,028 --> 00:02:59,329
This is the bedroom,
and the living room,

55
00:02:59,365 --> 00:03:00,898
and the exercise room.

56
00:03:00,933 --> 00:03:03,300
This is my bedside table

57
00:03:03,335 --> 00:03:06,336
that I fashioned
from a cardboard box.

58
00:03:06,372 --> 00:03:10,407
This is a couch from Amazon,

59
00:03:10,442 --> 00:03:12,142
which was $89.

60
00:03:12,178 --> 00:03:15,946
The fabulous kitchen.
Uh, what else?

61
00:03:15,981 --> 00:03:17,814
The closet, darlings.

62
00:03:17,850 --> 00:03:19,750
Bathroom. All of that.

63
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,987
This is the glamorous
rock-star life.

64
00:03:27,126 --> 00:03:29,092
As long as I feel creative,

65
00:03:29,128 --> 00:03:32,529
it, you know,
gives me a reason to live.

66
00:03:34,567 --> 00:03:36,633
I get up, I drink coffee,

67
00:03:36,669 --> 00:03:39,870
answer emails,
hustle for gigs,

68
00:03:39,905 --> 00:03:42,105
maybe work on a song.

69
00:03:43,142 --> 00:03:45,609
I've been working
on a musical.

70
00:03:45,644 --> 00:03:49,012
<i> ¶ How I miss</i>
<i> your machine gun wit ¶</i>

71
00:03:50,816 --> 00:03:53,850
I was part of
an innovative band

72
00:03:53,886 --> 00:03:55,852
in the '70s and '80s.

73
00:03:55,888 --> 00:03:58,188
I lived the high life
for a while,

74
00:03:58,224 --> 00:04:01,191
but like, now I'm just
another struggling artist.

75
00:04:01,227 --> 00:04:03,193
I think most musicians are
in the same place as I am,

76
00:04:03,229 --> 00:04:07,464
and it's really more
difficult today than ever.

77
00:04:08,767 --> 00:04:13,804
¶

78
00:04:16,075 --> 00:04:21,044
But I have something to say
and something to put out there.

79
00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,647
I love singing, I love writing,
I love performing.

80
00:04:23,682 --> 00:04:26,683
From the time I was a teenager,

81
00:04:26,719 --> 00:04:28,819
that's all
I really cared about.

82
00:04:32,625 --> 00:04:34,825
¶

83
00:04:41,367 --> 00:04:45,502
I started going to
Yorkville in the late '60s

84
00:04:45,537 --> 00:04:48,205
when I was still
living in Don Mills.

85
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,075
The summers are so horrific,
we all ran away to Yorkville.

86
00:04:52,111 --> 00:04:56,013
I used to dress very "mod"...
(laughing)

87
00:04:56,048 --> 00:04:59,082
...and take lots of drugs
and go and see more bands,

88
00:04:59,118 --> 00:05:01,084
and it was great.

89
00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,255
Penny Farthing,
Boris's, The Mynah Bird.

90
00:05:05,291 --> 00:05:08,025
I hardly spent
any time in high school,

91
00:05:08,060 --> 00:05:10,027
'cause I was always
down in The Village.

92
00:05:10,062 --> 00:05:11,595
You know,
and you kick off your shoes

93
00:05:11,630 --> 00:05:13,030
and walk around barefoot.

94
00:05:13,065 --> 00:05:15,565
I mean, I saw Joni Mitchell
at the Riverboat.

95
00:05:15,601 --> 00:05:18,602
It was just
such a golden time.

96
00:05:18,637 --> 00:05:20,804
There was a vibrant scene,
you know, in Yorkville,

97
00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,407
but it didn't permeate
the rest of the city.

98
00:05:23,442 --> 00:05:25,442
John Diefenbaker:
I dislike saying this

99
00:05:25,477 --> 00:05:27,911
in the City of Toronto,
but here in this city

100
00:05:27,946 --> 00:05:31,648
there is widespread
moral wrong-doing,

101
00:05:31,684 --> 00:05:34,785
more sex, more drugs.

102
00:05:34,820 --> 00:05:36,753
The permissive society.

103
00:05:36,789 --> 00:05:38,789
George Stroumboulopoulos:
In the '60s,

104
00:05:38,824 --> 00:05:40,290
Toronto was really small,

105
00:05:40,326 --> 00:05:41,725
really conservative.

106
00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,094
Gary Topp:
It was a pretty dead city.

107
00:05:44,129 --> 00:05:47,998
I recall when you couldn't
drink alcohol on Sundays,

108
00:05:48,033 --> 00:05:50,167
when you couldn't go
to a movie on a Sunday.

109
00:05:50,202 --> 00:05:53,904
Reporter: Yorkville is a splash
of colour in a grey town,

110
00:05:53,939 --> 00:05:56,673
a festering sore,
according to some city fathers.

111
00:05:56,709 --> 00:05:59,242
Carole:
We didn't give a shit.

112
00:05:59,278 --> 00:06:02,079
We were all, like,
rebellious in our way.

113
00:06:02,114 --> 00:06:06,283
It's all about peace and love,
and everybody felt really free.

114
00:06:06,318 --> 00:06:08,518
¶

115
00:06:13,359 --> 00:06:15,559
This is when I actually
started writing music,

116
00:06:15,594 --> 00:06:17,761
but I was very, very shy,

117
00:06:17,796 --> 00:06:20,297
and I wouldn't play
stuff for anybody.

118
00:06:20,332 --> 00:06:24,167
I was a bit of a nerd.
I was always reading.

119
00:06:24,203 --> 00:06:25,902
I was always writing.

120
00:06:25,938 --> 00:06:29,172
I secretly wanted to be
a singer-slash-musician.

121
00:06:31,977 --> 00:06:35,679
I met Kevan
at an audition

122
00:06:35,714 --> 00:06:38,281
for a band called
The Deva Loca Sideshow.

123
00:06:38,317 --> 00:06:39,983
He was auditioning
as the guitar player,

124
00:06:40,018 --> 00:06:41,585
and he was
so gorgeous looking,

125
00:06:41,620 --> 00:06:43,286
and I was very
attracted to him.

126
00:06:43,322 --> 00:06:48,091
Kevan Staples: This extremely
quiet young lady,

127
00:06:48,127 --> 00:06:50,627
with this long sort of
straight hair that just revealed

128
00:06:50,662 --> 00:06:53,764
a small portion of her face,
started singing these

129
00:06:53,799 --> 00:06:56,867
extremely women-centric songs,
and I said,

130
00:06:56,902 --> 00:06:59,102
"I have to be
with this girl," you know?

131
00:06:59,138 --> 00:07:01,438
And so we started
a relationship.

132
00:07:03,041 --> 00:07:04,541
Carole:
We had this great friendship

133
00:07:04,576 --> 00:07:07,210
that turned into a romance.

134
00:07:07,246 --> 00:07:09,212
Kevan: Within a year,
we were living together

135
00:07:09,248 --> 00:07:13,383
and spent the next
five years writing together.

136
00:07:13,419 --> 00:07:15,118
(Motown style music playing)

137
00:07:15,154 --> 00:07:17,320
Carole: We just used
to lie around a lot

138
00:07:17,356 --> 00:07:19,723
and listen to records,
smoke dope,

139
00:07:19,758 --> 00:07:22,492
and that's all you did all day,
was, like, smoke dope,

140
00:07:22,528 --> 00:07:26,963
do some acid, have pithy
conversations about life.

141
00:07:26,999 --> 00:07:29,499
You know, I kind of
turned him on to

142
00:07:29,535 --> 00:07:32,068
the music that I liked.

143
00:07:32,104 --> 00:07:36,139
He was into much more
esoteric stuff than I was.

144
00:07:36,175 --> 00:07:39,309
Yeah, I was listening to,
you know, psychedelic rock,

145
00:07:39,344 --> 00:07:42,646
and I was playing
sitar at the time.

146
00:07:42,681 --> 00:07:47,217
When I met Carole, she was into
all the sort of R&B soul music,

147
00:07:47,252 --> 00:07:48,919
and she also liked musicals.

148
00:07:51,557 --> 00:07:54,024
Carole:
Musicals are clever and pithy

149
00:07:54,059 --> 00:07:56,393
and full of sexual innuendo.

150
00:07:56,428 --> 00:07:59,596
Musicals are so gay.
Maybe that's why I like 'em.

151
00:07:59,631 --> 00:08:03,733
I don't know. I think I just
wanna write Broadway musicals

152
00:08:03,769 --> 00:08:06,236
and-or be Barbra Streisand,
or something.

153
00:08:06,271 --> 00:08:09,005
Well, not Barbra Streisand,
but something like that.

154
00:08:09,041 --> 00:08:11,208
Kevan: I think we didn't
really know exactly

155
00:08:11,243 --> 00:08:14,711
what we wanted to do,
but we did a lot of complaining

156
00:08:14,746 --> 00:08:16,213
about what we were
listening to on the radio.

157
00:08:16,248 --> 00:08:19,683
¶ Raise a little hell,
raise a little hell ¶

158
00:08:19,718 --> 00:08:21,017
¶ Raise a little hell ¶

159
00:08:21,053 --> 00:08:24,554
Kim Temple:
In Canada, in the '70s,

160
00:08:24,590 --> 00:08:29,559
it was a very white,
cis-male world

161
00:08:29,595 --> 00:08:33,063
where rock stars ruled.

162
00:08:33,098 --> 00:08:34,931
Doug McClement: Bands would
come to my studio and was like,

163
00:08:34,967 --> 00:08:37,400
"Make me sound like Rush,
make me sound like Foreigner,

164
00:08:37,436 --> 00:08:39,769
make me sound like Journey."

165
00:08:40,973 --> 00:08:42,372
We did wanna shake things up.

166
00:08:42,407 --> 00:08:44,741
And so we said, you know,
"Why don't we get a band?"

167
00:08:44,776 --> 00:08:48,745
I would come up with, like,
a sketch almost for a song

168
00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:51,414
and we'd kind of,
like, nurture it together.

169
00:08:51,450 --> 00:08:52,949
Carole always wrote
the lyrics.

170
00:08:52,985 --> 00:08:55,452
They had a real sort of
film quality to them,

171
00:08:55,487 --> 00:08:59,089
sexual references,
and also a great deal of wit.

172
00:08:59,124 --> 00:09:02,058
Because I was really keen on
supporting that voice, you know?

173
00:09:02,094 --> 00:09:04,895
I remember not only did
I want to be with that voice,

174
00:09:04,930 --> 00:09:06,897
but I wanted to be
behind that voice.

175
00:09:06,932 --> 00:09:10,100
Carole: Kevan writes kind of
nice poppy music

176
00:09:10,135 --> 00:09:12,335
and I have this dark,
bitter sensibility,

177
00:09:12,371 --> 00:09:15,472
and somehow they mesh.

178
00:09:15,507 --> 00:09:19,309
And eventually Rough Trade
evolved out of that.

179
00:09:21,313 --> 00:09:25,215
(audience cheering,
applauding)

180
00:09:26,718 --> 00:09:28,485
Carole: This is called
"Lie Back and Eat My--"

181
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,923
No, it's called "Lie Back,
Let Me Do Everything."

182
00:09:32,958 --> 00:09:34,491
(band playing)

183
00:09:34,526 --> 00:09:37,661
¶ It's 10:00 o'clock,
the bar is jammed ¶

184
00:09:37,696 --> 00:09:40,463
¶ Waitresses circulate ¶

185
00:09:40,499 --> 00:09:43,033
¶ In and out of tables ¶

186
00:09:43,068 --> 00:09:46,536
¶ Feel like a boxer ¶

187
00:09:46,572 --> 00:09:48,838
¶ I'm punch drunk ¶

188
00:09:48,874 --> 00:09:52,842
¶ Got a cigarette
wedged in my face ¶

189
00:09:54,580 --> 00:09:56,346
Rob Bowman: I remember
seeing them at Grossman's

190
00:09:56,381 --> 00:09:58,381
and the place was packed.

191
00:09:58,417 --> 00:10:01,384
Carole's magnetic.

192
00:10:01,420 --> 00:10:04,654
They're singing lyrics
like "Auto Erotic Love."

193
00:10:04,690 --> 00:10:06,489
And I think there
was a song about being

194
00:10:06,525 --> 00:10:09,025
dry humped in a hallway.

195
00:10:09,061 --> 00:10:11,995
Oh, there's
"Lipstick on your Dipstick."

196
00:10:12,030 --> 00:10:14,965
¶ Stale beer and Listerine ¶

197
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,567
¶ Lie back ¶

198
00:10:17,603 --> 00:10:20,070
Sebastian Bach:
I love Rush with all my heart.

199
00:10:20,105 --> 00:10:23,540
Everybody loves Triumph,
April Wine.

200
00:10:23,575 --> 00:10:27,877
But there's one thing
those bands don't have

201
00:10:27,913 --> 00:10:29,713
that Rough Trade has,

202
00:10:29,748 --> 00:10:33,083
and that is sex.

203
00:10:33,118 --> 00:10:37,120
Rob: They're all tied up in
the breaking of sexual taboos

204
00:10:37,155 --> 00:10:39,222
and we'll say "shock factor,"

205
00:10:39,257 --> 00:10:41,291
but there's incredible
humour in all this.

206
00:10:41,326 --> 00:10:43,627
Sex is very funny.

207
00:10:43,662 --> 00:10:45,528
Why don't you just get
right back and comfortable,

208
00:10:45,564 --> 00:10:47,097
because this is strong stuff.

209
00:10:47,132 --> 00:10:49,699
What we've got is some
adult entertainment.

210
00:10:49,735 --> 00:10:52,369
Carole: People are so hung up
about it.

211
00:10:52,404 --> 00:10:55,972
It should be a nonissue,
but it's always gonna be

212
00:10:56,008 --> 00:10:58,041
a source of material
for me to write about.

213
00:10:58,076 --> 00:10:59,776
- ¶ Take me ¶
- ¶ Take me ¶

214
00:10:59,811 --> 00:11:01,578
- ¶ Take me ¶
- ¶ Well, take me ¶

215
00:11:01,613 --> 00:11:03,313
¶ Through the doors
of paradise ¶

216
00:11:03,348 --> 00:11:05,115
¶ Whoa, whoa ¶

217
00:11:05,150 --> 00:11:07,751
¶ Don't leave me standing
on the threshold, no, no ¶

218
00:11:07,786 --> 00:11:10,720
¶ That's not nice,
that isn't nice ¶

219
00:11:10,756 --> 00:11:13,623
¶ Butch,
you, you gotta be butch ¶

220
00:11:13,659 --> 00:11:16,226
¶ Butch, yeah, butchy butch ¶

221
00:11:16,261 --> 00:11:17,827
¶ Gotta be butch ¶

222
00:11:17,863 --> 00:11:20,230
Kevan: The song styles
were changing all the time.

223
00:11:20,265 --> 00:11:23,500
We had country songs,
we had funk R&B songs,

224
00:11:23,535 --> 00:11:25,935
and a Rolling Stones
kind of rock song

225
00:11:25,971 --> 00:11:28,405
or a cabaret '30s song.

226
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,806
So, those first five years

227
00:11:29,841 --> 00:11:32,509
were almost establishing
the palate.

228
00:11:32,544 --> 00:11:36,079
Talk Show Host:
They're new, they're original.

229
00:11:36,114 --> 00:11:39,315
Rough Trade is what's
called an underground band.

230
00:11:39,351 --> 00:11:41,751
They have a cult following
in their hometown of Toronto,

231
00:11:41,787 --> 00:11:44,120
and it's an enormous cult
and it's a growing one.

232
00:11:44,156 --> 00:11:46,589
Carole:
Celebrities came to see us.

233
00:11:46,625 --> 00:11:50,760
There was pimps and hoes
sitting at the bar.

234
00:11:50,796 --> 00:11:53,930
We had such
an amazing audience.

235
00:11:53,965 --> 00:11:56,866
Kevan: We were really lucky
that when we started

236
00:11:56,902 --> 00:12:00,704
we kind of found
our crowd right away.

237
00:12:00,739 --> 00:12:03,606
Carole: We were really
surprised at how people

238
00:12:03,642 --> 00:12:06,342
related to the music.

239
00:12:06,378 --> 00:12:09,846
It was just great to
have that kind of impact.

240
00:12:09,881 --> 00:12:12,382
I think we were both
a little astounded by it.

241
00:12:12,417 --> 00:12:17,887
¶

242
00:12:23,328 --> 00:12:25,862
I remember that cigarette
dangling from the corner

243
00:12:25,897 --> 00:12:29,666
of your mouth, that white shirt
unbuttoned at the collar,

244
00:12:29,701 --> 00:12:32,635
revealing the tanned
expanse of your chest.

245
00:12:34,606 --> 00:12:36,706
I knew you would
never be completely mine,

246
00:12:36,742 --> 00:12:40,844
but I... I had to settle
for what I could get.

247
00:12:40,879 --> 00:12:42,312
I was quite hammy.

248
00:12:42,347 --> 00:12:43,813
I was just totally
hamming it up.

249
00:12:43,849 --> 00:12:45,315
I don't know how that evolved,

250
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:46,683
because when
I first started singing,

251
00:12:46,718 --> 00:12:48,585
I was just, like,
paralyzed with fear.

252
00:12:48,620 --> 00:12:51,387
And then the more I did it,
the more I was like,

253
00:12:51,423 --> 00:12:53,056
"Oh my God, I love this."

254
00:12:53,091 --> 00:12:56,159
...into the warped vessel
of a wanton woman's heart.

255
00:12:56,194 --> 00:12:58,361
Forgive me! Forgive me!

256
00:12:58,396 --> 00:13:02,499
You know, it's just, like,
sheer adrenaline, performing.

257
00:13:02,534 --> 00:13:05,602
You go into this zone.

258
00:13:05,637 --> 00:13:07,437
You get really,
really high from it.

259
00:13:10,142 --> 00:13:13,009
That's a part of me that
gets to release everything.

260
00:13:13,044 --> 00:13:15,178
Like, all my pent-up shit.

261
00:13:15,213 --> 00:13:19,149
I get to vent on stage
or be silly or whatever.

262
00:13:22,053 --> 00:13:26,022
I think it's in my blood.

263
00:13:26,057 --> 00:13:27,090
I got it from my mom.

264
00:13:28,894 --> 00:13:32,562
She was involved
in English music hall,

265
00:13:32,597 --> 00:13:35,598
a singer, dancer in the '40s,

266
00:13:35,634 --> 00:13:37,834
and I think she missed that.

267
00:13:40,005 --> 00:13:44,307
My dad wouldn't let her
sing after they got married.

268
00:13:44,342 --> 00:13:45,875
When I was
a little kid she said,

269
00:13:45,911 --> 00:13:48,144
"I was sorry the day after
I married your father."

270
00:13:48,180 --> 00:13:50,914
She was a frustrated
performer.

271
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:54,517
So, I think that
got channelled into me.

272
00:13:56,154 --> 00:13:58,988
I was born in Manchester.

273
00:13:59,024 --> 00:14:02,091
My mom took me to theatre
when I was a baby

274
00:14:02,127 --> 00:14:05,395
and the first music I heard
as a kid was Maria Callas

275
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:08,231
and Broadway musicals.

276
00:14:08,266 --> 00:14:11,734
I was close to my mom
and very close to my sisters,

277
00:14:11,770 --> 00:14:15,572
Diane and Elaine,
and we worshipped Howard.

278
00:14:17,642 --> 00:14:19,642
My brother, Howard,

279
00:14:19,678 --> 00:14:22,745
was really sweet
and sensitive,

280
00:14:22,781 --> 00:14:24,848
and he was very bright.

281
00:14:24,883 --> 00:14:28,151
I think he was
the smartest one of all of us.

282
00:14:28,186 --> 00:14:30,620
He definitely was
my closest family member.

283
00:14:33,425 --> 00:14:34,958
Howard and my sisters and I

284
00:14:34,993 --> 00:14:38,094
used to put on shows
for my parents.

285
00:14:38,129 --> 00:14:41,865
Almost everyone in my family
ended up in show biz.

286
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:48,738
My father was bipolar,
and I did not like my father.

287
00:14:48,773 --> 00:14:50,740
He was never supportive

288
00:14:50,775 --> 00:14:52,442
and he was
verbally abusive always.

289
00:14:52,477 --> 00:14:54,444
From the time I was born,

290
00:14:54,479 --> 00:14:56,479
my father would make us
move all the time.

291
00:14:56,514 --> 00:14:59,515
My mom would cry
when we had to move

292
00:14:59,551 --> 00:15:02,485
and it was difficult
for all of us.

293
00:15:04,122 --> 00:15:05,521
The minute I left England,

294
00:15:05,557 --> 00:15:08,524
I felt like
everything sucks.

295
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,827
We ended up moving to Canada.

296
00:15:10,862 --> 00:15:13,496
I was just,
like, introverted.

297
00:15:13,531 --> 00:15:15,965
I couldn't find that
many people to relate to,

298
00:15:16,001 --> 00:15:17,567
so I just made art.

299
00:15:24,743 --> 00:15:28,711
I think I was nine or something
when I saw Elvis on TV,

300
00:15:28,747 --> 00:15:31,381
and then I'm like,
"I need to have a guitar."

301
00:15:31,416 --> 00:15:33,850
Like, I want to sing like that

302
00:15:33,885 --> 00:15:37,120
and you know, be able
to express myself like that.

303
00:15:37,155 --> 00:15:38,788
I secretly wanna be
a rock star.

304
00:15:41,493 --> 00:15:44,894
Don Mills was, like,
kind of a hellscape.

305
00:15:44,930 --> 00:15:47,864
So, all I did was fantasize
about getting out of there,

306
00:15:47,899 --> 00:15:51,601
and eventually
I moved to Yorkville.

307
00:15:52,904 --> 00:15:55,138
Once we started
playing as Rough Trade,

308
00:15:55,173 --> 00:15:58,875
my mom would come to my gigs,
and I was like,

309
00:15:58,910 --> 00:16:00,910
"She's in the audience.
She's loving it."

310
00:16:00,946 --> 00:16:02,779
I think she was proud.

311
00:16:05,383 --> 00:16:10,553
¶

312
00:16:26,638 --> 00:16:29,238
(coughing)

313
00:16:29,274 --> 00:16:30,640
Director:
How are you feeling, buddy?

314
00:16:31,977 --> 00:16:33,276
I have a cough.

315
00:16:33,311 --> 00:16:35,244
I have a bit of a cough,
but I'm a bit better.

316
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,346
Director:
Yeah.

317
00:16:36,381 --> 00:16:39,082
Man:
A good gig cures anything.

318
00:16:39,117 --> 00:16:40,283
Yeah.

319
00:16:41,486 --> 00:16:45,455
Tim Welch: I'm Tim,
and my job is to play guitar

320
00:16:45,490 --> 00:16:47,423
for the wonderful Carole Pope,

321
00:16:47,459 --> 00:16:51,427
and I have been
doing so for 35, 36 years.

322
00:16:54,099 --> 00:16:57,467
I'm her
rock 'n' roll husband.

323
00:16:57,502 --> 00:16:59,936
Kevan is her
rock 'n' roll wife.

324
00:17:03,141 --> 00:17:06,876
I left Canada in 1989,
but I work in Canada a lot

325
00:17:06,911 --> 00:17:09,746
and I love the audiences.
I love all of that.

326
00:17:09,781 --> 00:17:12,081
(people talking)

327
00:17:12,117 --> 00:17:15,718
In order to make a living,
I have to play live.

328
00:17:19,090 --> 00:17:20,890
You know, we have made
some money from royalties,

329
00:17:20,925 --> 00:17:22,125
but not right now.

330
00:17:25,764 --> 00:17:27,730
You know,
the whole industry changed

331
00:17:27,766 --> 00:17:30,099
when people were
not buying vinyl.

332
00:17:30,135 --> 00:17:34,103
Our stuff was
on CD and cassettes,

333
00:17:34,139 --> 00:17:37,173
and then streaming
was everything.

334
00:17:37,208 --> 00:17:42,145
These fucking companies that
pay you a percentage of a cent

335
00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:44,814
for every track
that's downloaded.

336
00:17:44,849 --> 00:17:46,916
I mean, I just--
It's disgusting.

337
00:17:46,951 --> 00:17:49,519
Art has gotta
be worth something.

338
00:17:49,554 --> 00:17:50,787
Director:
What would have happened

339
00:17:50,822 --> 00:17:52,622
if streaming didn't happen?

340
00:17:52,657 --> 00:17:54,590
Tim: You would be interviewing
us right now on the beach.

341
00:17:54,626 --> 00:17:55,858
Are we all ready?

342
00:17:55,894 --> 00:17:57,360
Yeah.

343
00:17:59,364 --> 00:18:04,333
(audience cheering,
applauding)

344
00:18:09,707 --> 00:18:14,510
¶

345
00:18:16,381 --> 00:18:19,015
¶ You stand alone
up against the wall ¶

346
00:18:19,050 --> 00:18:22,151
¶ The sheer force of it
knocks you off your feet ¶

347
00:18:22,187 --> 00:18:25,288
¶ Here it comes again,
up against the wall ¶

348
00:18:25,323 --> 00:18:28,458
¶ She's the only sanity
in all this chaos ¶

349
00:18:28,493 --> 00:18:31,694
¶ Give up the fight,
up against the wall ¶

350
00:18:31,729 --> 00:18:34,397
¶ Lay down your arms ¶

351
00:18:34,432 --> 00:18:38,434
¶ She's got your life
in her hand ¶

352
00:18:40,638 --> 00:18:43,940
¶ Up against the wall,
up against the wall ¶

353
00:18:43,975 --> 00:18:47,577
¶

354
00:18:47,612 --> 00:18:51,781
¶ She's got your life
in her hands ¶

355
00:18:55,153 --> 00:18:57,587
(audience cheering,
applauding)

356
00:18:57,622 --> 00:18:58,788
Thank you!

357
00:19:01,126 --> 00:19:05,561
I'm staying across from
where Vidal Sassoon used to be,

358
00:19:05,597 --> 00:19:08,731
but they tore it down
and I'm heartbroken.

359
00:19:08,766 --> 00:19:11,033
They just don't give a shit.
They keep tearing stuff down

360
00:19:11,069 --> 00:19:14,904
and building condos, condos,
Toronto, condos.

361
00:19:14,939 --> 00:19:16,139
(audience laughing)

362
00:19:19,777 --> 00:19:21,611
We're just having a few
glasses of water here

363
00:19:21,646 --> 00:19:24,147
because we're pretty
deviant kind of people,

364
00:19:24,182 --> 00:19:26,449
and, yeah,
we're heavily into water.

365
00:19:26,484 --> 00:19:28,985
Water and water sports.
Golden showers.

366
00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:30,820
Perhaps you've heard
about them.

367
00:19:30,855 --> 00:19:32,555
They could be happening
in your home right now.

368
00:19:32,590 --> 00:19:35,992
(band starting song)

369
00:19:36,027 --> 00:19:37,793
¶ It was hell on the street ¶

370
00:19:37,829 --> 00:19:41,597
¶ Cops, barricades,
and dogs ¶

371
00:19:41,633 --> 00:19:45,835
I think I got to live
in Toronto during its heyday.

372
00:19:45,870 --> 00:19:49,272
¶ Sure, I was a goner ¶

373
00:19:49,307 --> 00:19:51,674
Toronto in the '70s

374
00:19:51,709 --> 00:19:54,677
was a cross-pollination
of the arts.

375
00:19:54,712 --> 00:19:58,848
Theatre, music, film.
We all knew each other.

376
00:19:58,883 --> 00:20:02,752
We all supported each other.
We all got stoned together.

377
00:20:02,787 --> 00:20:04,020
It was amazing.

378
00:20:04,055 --> 00:20:07,590
¶ Oh, God
I was your hostage ¶

379
00:20:07,625 --> 00:20:09,025
Gary:
Fashion was changing.

380
00:20:09,060 --> 00:20:10,760
Art galleries were opening.

381
00:20:10,795 --> 00:20:12,528
The whole scene

382
00:20:12,564 --> 00:20:16,265
really changed
the face of Toronto.

383
00:20:16,301 --> 00:20:18,267
¶ You dragged me
through the police line ¶

384
00:20:18,303 --> 00:20:20,503
Sandy Stagg:
When I got here in 1968,

385
00:20:20,538 --> 00:20:22,738
Toronto was, like,
so backwards.

386
00:20:23,741 --> 00:20:25,608
(laughing) Sorry, Toronto,

387
00:20:25,643 --> 00:20:28,110
but people like General Idea
and Carole and me

388
00:20:28,146 --> 00:20:31,180
soon dragged
you up into the world

389
00:20:31,216 --> 00:20:32,448
we got to know in the '70s.

390
00:20:34,752 --> 00:20:37,787
Carole: We met General Idea,
this group of three artists.

391
00:20:37,822 --> 00:20:40,223
They did four of
our album covers.

392
00:20:42,227 --> 00:20:44,660
Kevan: We had all these dreams
in our head of working

393
00:20:44,696 --> 00:20:46,529
with other like-minded people.

394
00:20:46,564 --> 00:20:48,864
Like some really
interesting singers,

395
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:51,167
Nona Hendryx, Tim Curry.

396
00:20:51,202 --> 00:20:52,969
Carole:
We also worked with Divine,

397
00:20:53,004 --> 00:20:55,204
who was in these
John Waters films.

398
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,474
We did this crazy
show at Massey Hall

399
00:20:58,509 --> 00:20:59,942
called "Restless Underwear."

400
00:21:01,112 --> 00:21:02,545
Thank you.

401
00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:05,314
Kevan and I started
going to Second City,

402
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:08,584
because we loved comedy,
so we knew Gilda Radner

403
00:21:08,620 --> 00:21:11,153
and Danny Aykroyd
and Marty Short

404
00:21:11,189 --> 00:21:12,688
and we all hung out together,

405
00:21:12,724 --> 00:21:14,857
and then when
they did the TV show,

406
00:21:14,892 --> 00:21:17,226
they asked us to be
on the show.

407
00:21:17,262 --> 00:21:18,928
Welcome to Rock Rap.

408
00:21:18,963 --> 00:21:21,264
We'd like to welcome
our special guest, Rough Trade.

409
00:21:21,299 --> 00:21:22,732
(audience applauding)

410
00:21:22,767 --> 00:21:25,067
In the underground pop world,
which is better,

411
00:21:25,103 --> 00:21:26,902
bondage or humiliation?

412
00:21:26,938 --> 00:21:28,237
Humiliation.

413
00:21:28,273 --> 00:21:29,505
(all clapping)

414
00:21:29,540 --> 00:21:30,940
We wanted to hang out
with them

415
00:21:30,975 --> 00:21:32,608
'cause we thought
they were the cool kids.

416
00:21:32,644 --> 00:21:34,944
Little did we know that
we were the cool kids.

417
00:21:34,979 --> 00:21:39,615
¶ You say I'm a narcissist ¶

418
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,657
¶ I say I'm image conscious ¶

419
00:21:48,993 --> 00:21:51,627
¶ I'm a victim of fashion ¶

420
00:21:53,264 --> 00:21:57,199
¶ Of fashion and accessories ¶

421
00:21:57,235 --> 00:21:59,635
Carole: Kevan and I were
absolutely obsessed

422
00:21:59,671 --> 00:22:01,037
with fashion.

423
00:22:01,072 --> 00:22:02,638
It was all part
of the presentation.

424
00:22:04,842 --> 00:22:07,376
We were queens of androgyny,

425
00:22:07,412 --> 00:22:10,146
a combination of punk,
bondage, and glam.

426
00:22:11,749 --> 00:22:13,282
¶ We're all victims
of fashion ¶

427
00:22:13,318 --> 00:22:15,051
Jeanne Beker: That might
have been the first time

428
00:22:15,086 --> 00:22:18,120
I ever even heard of
someone being referred to

429
00:22:18,156 --> 00:22:19,588
as a "victim of fashion."

430
00:22:19,624 --> 00:22:21,924
You know,
it was just genius, really.

431
00:22:21,959 --> 00:22:26,696
¶ Square those shoulder pads ¶

432
00:22:27,765 --> 00:22:30,733
Carole:
A Rough Trade show was me

433
00:22:30,768 --> 00:22:32,101
with a riding crop,

434
00:22:32,136 --> 00:22:34,937
faux whipping somebody
in the audience.

435
00:22:34,972 --> 00:22:36,472
People just really enjoyed it

436
00:22:36,507 --> 00:22:38,641
and got the theatricality
of it.

437
00:22:38,676 --> 00:22:40,609
You shouldn't wear
blue jeans on stage.

438
00:22:40,645 --> 00:22:42,912
You should create some
kind of fantasy for people.

439
00:22:42,947 --> 00:22:44,513
I mean, they like that.

440
00:22:44,549 --> 00:22:48,818
It was a convergence of art,
music, and fashion,

441
00:22:48,853 --> 00:22:51,487
all the things
that turned us on.

442
00:22:51,522 --> 00:22:55,758
¶

443
00:22:55,793 --> 00:22:57,560
Jeanne: So, many musicians have
drifted in and out

444
00:22:57,595 --> 00:22:58,761
of your life.

445
00:22:58,796 --> 00:23:01,330
What inspired you to
add the female members

446
00:23:01,366 --> 00:23:02,665
to the group at that point?

447
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:04,300
I don't know.
I thought it was a kind of

448
00:23:04,335 --> 00:23:08,137
a fun idea to have, like,
three girls and three guys,

449
00:23:08,172 --> 00:23:09,605
but I would never
do that again.

450
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,340
- Um...
- (laughing) Why?

451
00:23:11,376 --> 00:23:13,309
Well, Jane was so gorgeous

452
00:23:13,344 --> 00:23:14,910
that she was constantly
upstaging me,

453
00:23:14,946 --> 00:23:16,512
and, frankly,
I couldn't take it.

454
00:23:18,182 --> 00:23:21,684
¶ From the trailer
of Miss Divine ¶

455
00:23:21,719 --> 00:23:24,787
¶ In the cliques
of the chic ¶

456
00:23:24,822 --> 00:23:28,657
¶ Glamour rears
its lovely head ¶

457
00:23:28,693 --> 00:23:32,094
¶

458
00:23:32,130 --> 00:23:33,863
The lovely Jane.

459
00:23:35,666 --> 00:23:37,833
I went to a party
and she was there

460
00:23:37,869 --> 00:23:40,536
and we ended up
sleeping together.

461
00:23:40,571 --> 00:23:42,938
Because look at her!
She's gorgeous.

462
00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:49,645
I knew I was gay
when I was a little kid.

463
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,548
When I saw
a Wonder Woman comic book,

464
00:23:52,583 --> 00:23:56,352
I was like,
"That woman is hot!"

465
00:23:56,387 --> 00:24:01,290
That was my first inkling
that I might be a lesbian.

466
00:24:01,325 --> 00:24:06,028
But I also knew this is,
like, a weird feeling,

467
00:24:06,063 --> 00:24:08,063
this can't be good.

468
00:24:08,099 --> 00:24:12,134
It was the '50s.
That shit was not happening.

469
00:24:12,170 --> 00:24:15,504
I think I tried to
come out in the '60s,

470
00:24:15,540 --> 00:24:18,474
but it just wasn't possible.

471
00:24:18,509 --> 00:24:20,342
So, I was very conflicted
about the whole thing,

472
00:24:20,378 --> 00:24:22,311
and I did have crushes
on guys,

473
00:24:22,346 --> 00:24:25,080
and then I was with Kevan.

474
00:24:25,116 --> 00:24:26,515
I was really into Kevan.

475
00:24:26,551 --> 00:24:29,919
We were really, like,
soulmates on so many levels.

476
00:24:29,954 --> 00:24:32,321
So, I guess I was bisexual,
and then I wasn't.

477
00:24:32,356 --> 00:24:35,191
Jane was the catalyst.

478
00:24:35,226 --> 00:24:36,959
I'm like, "I have to!"

479
00:24:41,399 --> 00:24:44,733
We were, like,
completely high on each other.

480
00:24:44,769 --> 00:24:46,602
It was very exciting.

481
00:24:46,637 --> 00:24:50,072
and I ended up
breaking up with Kevan

482
00:24:50,107 --> 00:24:52,208
and kind of coming out,

483
00:24:52,243 --> 00:24:54,043
and, I mean,
it was awful for both of us,

484
00:24:54,078 --> 00:24:58,848
'cause I really
loved Kevan, and, um...

485
00:25:01,786 --> 00:25:04,954
But, you know, the heart
wants what the heart wants.

486
00:25:06,557 --> 00:25:08,858
Do you want
the personal story?

487
00:25:08,893 --> 00:25:11,260
- Director: Sure!
- It was devastating for me.

488
00:25:11,295 --> 00:25:12,862
Yeah, it was hard.

489
00:25:12,897 --> 00:25:16,365
It's hard to lose
somebody you have that much,

490
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,567
uh, love for
and respect for, you know?

491
00:25:18,603 --> 00:25:22,438
Carole:
It was really bad

492
00:25:22,473 --> 00:25:24,907
the first few times
that we played.

493
00:25:24,942 --> 00:25:26,775
Everybody in the band
at that time when we broke up

494
00:25:26,811 --> 00:25:29,144
were saying, "Mommy and Daddy,
please don't fight,"

495
00:25:29,180 --> 00:25:30,746
'cause we were--
(snarling like a cat)

496
00:25:30,781 --> 00:25:33,315
and that was about the worst
period in our relationship.

497
00:25:33,351 --> 00:25:37,152
I felt really guilty,
and I know he was really hurt,

498
00:25:37,188 --> 00:25:39,788
and I was like,
"Please let him meet somebody,"

499
00:25:39,824 --> 00:25:42,157
and eventually
he started dating.

500
00:25:42,193 --> 00:25:46,161
Marilyn started coming
to our shows at Grossman's

501
00:25:46,197 --> 00:25:48,397
and eventually
they got married,

502
00:25:48,432 --> 00:25:51,066
and I was, like,
really happy for them,

503
00:25:51,102 --> 00:25:53,435
and when Jane and I
eventually broke up,

504
00:25:53,471 --> 00:25:56,238
I just sailed on
to other women.

505
00:25:58,809 --> 00:26:02,278
I'm really not looking
for an everlasting romance,

506
00:26:02,313 --> 00:26:04,580
because I don't believe
in anything like that,

507
00:26:04,615 --> 00:26:05,814
I don't think.

508
00:26:07,485 --> 00:26:10,519
And then Kevan and I were back

509
00:26:10,555 --> 00:26:12,688
to where we were.

510
00:26:12,723 --> 00:26:14,690
It actually formed
a stronger bond,

511
00:26:14,725 --> 00:26:16,959
so there you go.

512
00:26:16,994 --> 00:26:21,030
Our connection was much
stronger than just as lovers,

513
00:26:21,065 --> 00:26:23,933
because we were making art.
We were making songs.

514
00:26:23,968 --> 00:26:25,334
I call them "song babies"

515
00:26:25,369 --> 00:26:27,870
'cause, you know,
music lasts forever.

516
00:26:29,974 --> 00:26:32,341
¶

517
00:26:52,697 --> 00:26:55,998
Check! Yeah!

518
00:26:56,033 --> 00:26:59,935
(playing keys)

519
00:26:59,971 --> 00:27:02,438
Nona Hendryx: I sort of
got to know Carole and Kevan

520
00:27:02,473 --> 00:27:04,540
in the late '70s,

521
00:27:04,575 --> 00:27:06,442
and we just got on
great as people.

522
00:27:06,477 --> 00:27:09,678
They're like
one person in a way,

523
00:27:09,714 --> 00:27:13,716
but individual because
they also had very strong ideas

524
00:27:13,751 --> 00:27:16,585
and opinions about things,
specifically Carole,

525
00:27:16,621 --> 00:27:19,121
and Kevan was strong
enough to push back.

526
00:27:19,156 --> 00:27:24,159
There was that typical
glimmer twin relationship.

527
00:27:26,564 --> 00:27:29,064
Carole: There is
a special magic with Kevan.

528
00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:30,599
And yeah,
we've been through so much.

529
00:27:30,635 --> 00:27:34,703
We had this amazing band,
and, uh,

530
00:27:34,739 --> 00:27:36,905
he's actually
really ill right now.

531
00:27:36,941 --> 00:27:41,543
So, I just want to
be there for him.

532
00:27:41,579 --> 00:27:43,545
The last time
we played was last year,

533
00:27:43,581 --> 00:27:46,949
but he was on painkillers
and in a back brace,

534
00:27:46,984 --> 00:27:48,784
but he was, like,
full of so much joy.

535
00:27:48,819 --> 00:27:53,656
His spirit is so strong
and so amazing.

536
00:27:58,195 --> 00:28:00,629
Carole: There's such
a resurgence in people

537
00:28:00,665 --> 00:28:02,231
wanting to hear '80s bands.

538
00:28:02,266 --> 00:28:06,101
So, occasionally we will do
Rough Trade reunion gigs.

539
00:28:06,137 --> 00:28:07,569
Usher:
Cheers. Enjoy the show.

540
00:28:07,605 --> 00:28:10,973
Carole:
It's fun and good money,

541
00:28:11,008 --> 00:28:13,208
and I love playing with Kevan.

542
00:28:17,148 --> 00:28:18,414
Talk Show Host:
You, Carole Pope,

543
00:28:18,449 --> 00:28:20,649
were offered
a recording contract

544
00:28:20,685 --> 00:28:22,184
by a big recording company.

545
00:28:22,219 --> 00:28:24,620
If you would leave
Rough Trade behind

546
00:28:24,655 --> 00:28:25,921
and go it alone,

547
00:28:25,956 --> 00:28:27,523
they promised to make you
a star. Is that true?

548
00:28:27,558 --> 00:28:29,525
Yes, it is.

549
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,762
I did get offered
a deal with Motown,

550
00:28:33,798 --> 00:28:38,100
and they wanted me to
not do my own material,

551
00:28:38,135 --> 00:28:40,803
and I was like, "No!"

552
00:28:40,838 --> 00:28:43,138
I mean, I'll do cover tunes,
but it's not my thing,

553
00:28:43,174 --> 00:28:47,042
and I'm a writer, you know,
I'm a singer-songwriter,

554
00:28:47,078 --> 00:28:50,012
and, you know, I really
believed in Rough Trade,

555
00:28:50,047 --> 00:28:52,514
and I really loved
working with Kevan,

556
00:28:52,550 --> 00:28:54,750
and, you know,
we had an amazing thing going.

557
00:28:56,420 --> 00:28:58,954
They wanted to
separate Kevan and I,

558
00:28:58,989 --> 00:29:00,322
and we are joined at the hip.

559
00:29:00,357 --> 00:29:01,523
Talk Show Host:
And that's Kevan Staples.

560
00:29:01,559 --> 00:29:02,791
Mm-hm.

561
00:29:02,827 --> 00:29:03,792
Who you founded
Rough Trade with?

562
00:29:03,828 --> 00:29:05,561
- Yes.
- And you wouldn't go.

563
00:29:05,596 --> 00:29:09,231
It's not always about
the money or the fame.

564
00:29:09,266 --> 00:29:12,201
It's just about
making great art.

565
00:29:12,236 --> 00:29:17,239
(audience cheering,
applauding)

566
00:29:21,245 --> 00:29:22,211
Thank you!

567
00:29:22,246 --> 00:29:25,547
(audience cheering)

568
00:29:25,583 --> 00:29:28,083
¶

569
00:29:33,357 --> 00:29:35,257
Kevan:
If you're lucky enough,

570
00:29:35,292 --> 00:29:37,025
you get to have some
notoriety like we did,

571
00:29:37,061 --> 00:29:40,929
and if you're really lucky,
you get back to the core.

572
00:29:40,965 --> 00:29:42,865
So when you see a show now,

573
00:29:42,900 --> 00:29:44,500
they're just there
for one thing,

574
00:29:44,535 --> 00:29:48,337
and they're the ones that,
you know, get it 100%.

575
00:29:48,372 --> 00:29:51,673
¶ I pushed her tense face ¶

576
00:29:51,709 --> 00:29:53,709
¶ Away from me ¶

577
00:29:53,744 --> 00:29:56,044
Kevan: It's lovely to
play to that crowd,

578
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,080
because those are
the people, right?

579
00:29:58,115 --> 00:29:59,281
¶ Away from me ¶

580
00:29:59,316 --> 00:30:02,417
¶

581
00:30:02,453 --> 00:30:06,221
¶ The hard smile,
it's voice going on ¶

582
00:30:06,257 --> 00:30:09,057
¶ Like a razor blade
on glass ¶

583
00:30:09,093 --> 00:30:13,729
¶ All touch, but no contact ¶

584
00:30:13,764 --> 00:30:15,531
¶ It stabbed me ¶

585
00:30:15,566 --> 00:30:17,232
I've been following
Rough Trade for over 45 years.

586
00:30:17,268 --> 00:30:21,103
It was a light that went on
that shone for us all.

587
00:30:21,138 --> 00:30:26,074
I don't think a lot of us would
be here today without Carole.

588
00:30:26,110 --> 00:30:29,812
Woman #1: You know,
she's really been the one who's

589
00:30:29,847 --> 00:30:31,313
done it first in a lot of ways.

590
00:30:31,348 --> 00:30:34,650
Woman #2: I found Rough Trade
at Value Village one day.

591
00:30:34,685 --> 00:30:36,151
They had "For Those
Who Think Young" on vinyl.

592
00:30:36,187 --> 00:30:37,986
My favourite song
is probably "All Touch".

593
00:30:38,022 --> 00:30:40,789
Almost 40 years later,
it's still perfect.

594
00:30:40,825 --> 00:30:43,892
¶ It stabbed me like, it stabbed
me like a knife in the back ¶

595
00:30:43,928 --> 00:30:47,930
¶ All, all touch ¶

596
00:30:47,965 --> 00:30:52,601
¶ All touch and all touch,
and no contact ¶

597
00:30:52,636 --> 00:30:55,270
¶ I tense my body ¶

598
00:30:55,306 --> 00:30:57,739
¶

599
00:31:12,456 --> 00:31:14,823
¶

600
00:31:20,331 --> 00:31:24,433
(sizzling)

601
00:31:24,468 --> 00:31:26,001
Woman: They're coming to life,
look at 'em!

602
00:31:26,036 --> 00:31:28,737
Does this mean they're done?

603
00:31:28,772 --> 00:31:30,305
- The pierogi have risen!
- (Carole gasping)

604
00:31:30,341 --> 00:31:32,407
They've come into their own!

605
00:31:32,443 --> 00:31:35,744
(both laughing)

606
00:31:35,779 --> 00:31:38,146
You--
You're, like, always just--

607
00:31:38,182 --> 00:31:39,781
You're hustling, hustling.
You just--

608
00:31:39,817 --> 00:31:42,150
I don't know anybody
who goes as much as you do.

609
00:31:42,186 --> 00:31:43,585
Really?

610
00:31:43,621 --> 00:31:45,254
I mean, yeah,
I think I'd get exhausted.

611
00:31:45,289 --> 00:31:46,822
I mean, I couldn't travel around

612
00:31:46,857 --> 00:31:49,291
and play gigs cross country
as much as you do.

613
00:31:49,326 --> 00:31:50,492
That would be a lot.

614
00:31:50,527 --> 00:31:52,261
- It's big.
- Yeah.

615
00:31:52,296 --> 00:31:53,862
- It is exhausting, but--
- Yeah.

616
00:31:53,898 --> 00:31:55,497
But I love it.

617
00:31:55,532 --> 00:31:59,668
She works harder than
a lot of us do, you know?

618
00:31:59,703 --> 00:32:03,272
And she's-- she's, like,
several decades older.

619
00:32:03,307 --> 00:32:05,841
I am in a band
called Sapphic Musk

620
00:32:05,876 --> 00:32:08,010
and like, I'm from the LA

621
00:32:08,045 --> 00:32:10,045
kind of underground
punk rock scene,

622
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,014
and Carole's punk rock
as far-- like,

623
00:32:12,049 --> 00:32:13,849
her ethics are punk rock.

624
00:32:13,884 --> 00:32:15,550
The way she does it DIY.

625
00:32:15,586 --> 00:32:18,387
Trying to surf
this gigantic ocean

626
00:32:18,422 --> 00:32:20,355
that is the music industry now

627
00:32:20,391 --> 00:32:22,190
versus how she learned it
in the beginning,

628
00:32:22,226 --> 00:32:24,059
it's so different.

629
00:32:24,094 --> 00:32:25,827
We're talking about
steps of generations.

630
00:32:25,863 --> 00:32:27,362
Yeah.

631
00:32:27,398 --> 00:32:30,465
You're before me,
but I can't imagine in the '70s,

632
00:32:30,501 --> 00:32:32,467
you must have felt so alone.

633
00:32:32,503 --> 00:32:33,702
- Yeah.
- So alone.

634
00:32:33,737 --> 00:32:36,805
No Carole Popes
before you being all

635
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,207
just whoever
they are on the stage.

636
00:32:39,243 --> 00:32:41,343
Yeah.

637
00:32:41,378 --> 00:32:44,012
Carole, like,
rose out of nothing.

638
00:32:44,048 --> 00:32:46,682
Created it from clay.

639
00:32:46,717 --> 00:32:49,551
I'm like the godmother
of all you bitches.

640
00:32:49,586 --> 00:32:52,020
¶

641
00:32:52,056 --> 00:32:56,425
¶ If we happen to
walk down the street ¶

642
00:32:56,460 --> 00:32:59,761
¶ Holding another woman's arm ¶

643
00:32:59,797 --> 00:33:02,030
¶ If we get looks
of revulsion ¶

644
00:33:02,066 --> 00:33:06,868
¶ I get a compulsion
to set things right ¶

645
00:33:06,904 --> 00:33:11,340
¶ If you're saying
dyke by default ¶

646
00:33:11,375 --> 00:33:14,576
¶ Dyke, it's a '50s cliché ¶

647
00:33:14,611 --> 00:33:16,278
Carole:
I was absolutely fearless.

648
00:33:16,313 --> 00:33:18,113
I was just, like,
"I'm gonna write this stuff,

649
00:33:18,148 --> 00:33:20,215
and you're either gonna
like it or not like it."

650
00:33:20,250 --> 00:33:22,517
¶ If you're jealous
or threatened ¶

651
00:33:22,553 --> 00:33:25,120
¶ Well, excuse me ¶

652
00:33:25,155 --> 00:33:27,723
I just felt
I'm an artist, I feel free,

653
00:33:27,758 --> 00:33:30,092
I'm going to do
whatever the fuck I want.

654
00:33:30,127 --> 00:33:32,194
You know, I just was what I was.

655
00:33:33,664 --> 00:33:36,465
She was courageous and daring.

656
00:33:37,735 --> 00:33:41,636
Being gay was dangerous.
It was really dangerous.

657
00:33:41,672 --> 00:33:43,438
Sandy: Most people
who were gay early on

658
00:33:43,474 --> 00:33:45,807
didn't exactly
announce that fact.

659
00:33:45,843 --> 00:33:48,877
Salah Bachir: Bowie or somebody
would say they're bisexual,

660
00:33:48,912 --> 00:33:51,613
and so, we all thought
we were bisexual as well.

661
00:33:51,648 --> 00:33:53,915
We were experimenting.
It's a phase.

662
00:33:53,951 --> 00:33:55,884
All of that stuff.

663
00:33:55,919 --> 00:33:57,419
And then Carole and
Rough Trade comes out

664
00:33:57,454 --> 00:33:58,954
and just in your face.

665
00:33:58,989 --> 00:34:01,423
¶ Butch, you,
you gotta be butch ¶

666
00:34:01,458 --> 00:34:03,525
¶ Butch, a butchy butch ¶

667
00:34:04,928 --> 00:34:07,462
Carole was kind of a stud,

668
00:34:07,498 --> 00:34:09,998
a radical gay.
No apologies.

669
00:34:10,034 --> 00:34:11,600
It was very
empowering to people.

670
00:34:11,635 --> 00:34:14,269
It was the same time
as the bathhouse raids here.

671
00:34:14,304 --> 00:34:16,938
¶

672
00:34:16,974 --> 00:34:19,508
Crowd: Gay rights, right now!
Gay rights, right now!

673
00:34:19,543 --> 00:34:22,144
Reporter #1: 3500 people turned
out to demonstrate against

674
00:34:22,179 --> 00:34:25,447
the raids two weeks ago
at four Toronto steam baths.

675
00:34:25,482 --> 00:34:27,816
Reporter #2: This man, who
didn't want to appear on camera,

676
00:34:27,851 --> 00:34:30,619
was one of 300 people
arrested in the raids.

677
00:34:30,654 --> 00:34:33,655
Man: I no longer feel
safe in this community.

678
00:34:33,690 --> 00:34:37,526
And then back around '80 or '81,
it was a dangerous time.

679
00:34:37,561 --> 00:34:39,461
Salah: A lot of persecution
was happening.

680
00:34:39,496 --> 00:34:41,997
People were being
arrested in parks, you know,

681
00:34:42,032 --> 00:34:43,365
names were being published,

682
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,333
people were being
fired from their jobs

683
00:34:45,369 --> 00:34:47,169
even at the hint of being gay.

684
00:34:47,204 --> 00:34:49,771
So, it was huge to
have Carole out there

685
00:34:49,807 --> 00:34:53,508
and be on stage
and be who she was.

686
00:34:53,544 --> 00:34:56,778
Carole was groundbreaking,
you know, in coming out

687
00:34:56,814 --> 00:35:00,115
and just saying,
you know, "Here I am.

688
00:35:00,150 --> 00:35:02,717
You know where you can go
if you don't like it," you know?

689
00:35:09,860 --> 00:35:11,560
Woman: We're good on our end.

690
00:35:11,595 --> 00:35:12,961
- Okay, well.
- Carole: Alright.

691
00:35:12,996 --> 00:35:16,364
Shall we dive in,
start with Dusty,

692
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,732
and we'll just go
along as we do.

693
00:35:17,768 --> 00:35:18,733
Alright.

694
00:35:18,769 --> 00:35:19,701
Okay.

695
00:35:19,736 --> 00:35:21,336
Both:
Rolling.

696
00:35:26,243 --> 00:35:28,510
"In the fall of 1981,
I met Dusty Springfield.

697
00:35:28,545 --> 00:35:31,413
She was a blonde,
beautiful English woman.

698
00:35:31,448 --> 00:35:34,549
If you are a lesbian,
you know where this is going."

699
00:35:34,585 --> 00:35:37,719
¶ Don't you see that ¶

700
00:35:37,754 --> 00:35:42,090
¶ Now you've gone ¶

701
00:35:42,126 --> 00:35:44,626
¶ And I'm left here ¶

702
00:35:44,661 --> 00:35:47,395
¶ On my own ¶

703
00:35:47,431 --> 00:35:49,698
Carole:
"Dusty Springfield was an icon.

704
00:35:49,733 --> 00:35:53,101
She was part of the collective
lesbo consciousness.

705
00:35:53,137 --> 00:35:54,603
We all knew she was gay.

706
00:35:54,638 --> 00:35:58,907
The boys had Rock Hudson,
we had Dusty.

707
00:35:58,942 --> 00:36:01,810
¶ You don't have
to stay forever ¶

708
00:36:01,845 --> 00:36:05,046
¶ I will understand ¶

709
00:36:05,082 --> 00:36:07,816
"I flew to New York to see
her perform at a supper club.

710
00:36:07,851 --> 00:36:10,452
Her voice made me
slide off my seat.

711
00:36:12,156 --> 00:36:16,091
After the show, I went
backstage to meet Dusty.

712
00:36:16,126 --> 00:36:19,060
We sized each other up.

713
00:36:19,096 --> 00:36:22,330
Yes, the air was
thick with sexual tension.

714
00:36:22,366 --> 00:36:25,467
She offered me a drink,
and the next thing I knew,

715
00:36:25,502 --> 00:36:27,769
we were all over each other.

716
00:36:27,804 --> 00:36:29,638
There's a joke.

717
00:36:29,673 --> 00:36:32,307
What do lesbians do
on their second date?

718
00:36:32,342 --> 00:36:33,408
Bring a U-Haul.

719
00:36:33,443 --> 00:36:36,978
Well, it's painfully true."

720
00:36:37,014 --> 00:36:39,314
Because the big news,
and I'd love to tell everyone,

721
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:40,749
if you don't mind,

722
00:36:40,784 --> 00:36:41,983
is that you're getting
married very soon.

723
00:36:42,019 --> 00:36:43,151
That's right, next month.

724
00:36:43,187 --> 00:36:44,152
Host:
How 'bout it?

725
00:36:44,188 --> 00:36:46,188
(audience applauding)

726
00:36:46,223 --> 00:36:47,189
Thank you.

727
00:36:47,224 --> 00:36:49,424
Host:
The blushing bride?

728
00:36:49,459 --> 00:36:51,626
It's taken you
a while to decide--

729
00:36:51,662 --> 00:36:53,261
I haven't blushed yet.
(laughing)

730
00:36:53,297 --> 00:36:54,496
Who's the man?

731
00:36:54,531 --> 00:36:55,997
It's about time.
He's a Toronto musician.

732
00:36:56,033 --> 00:36:57,999
You wouldn't know him.

733
00:36:58,035 --> 00:37:02,971
That's just Dusty,
and she was closeted,

734
00:37:03,006 --> 00:37:05,207
and I couldn't
make her come out.

735
00:37:05,242 --> 00:37:09,377
I'd like to introduce
a friend of mine.

736
00:37:09,413 --> 00:37:10,946
A living legend!

737
00:37:10,981 --> 00:37:12,847
England's own Dusty Springfield!

738
00:37:12,883 --> 00:37:16,218
"In the spring of 1981,

739
00:37:16,253 --> 00:37:19,821
Dusty, her two cats,
and I moved in together."

740
00:37:19,856 --> 00:37:21,823
Dusty Springfield:
Which side am I? This side?

741
00:37:21,858 --> 00:37:23,625
I don't know, which side
would you like, dear?

742
00:37:23,660 --> 00:37:27,329
Would you like to be on top? No.

743
00:37:27,364 --> 00:37:30,198
"Two divas
under one roof. Bad."

744
00:37:30,234 --> 00:37:32,467
Your hair's bigger than mine.

745
00:37:32,502 --> 00:37:33,668
I'm sorry.

746
00:37:33,704 --> 00:37:35,637
Kindly leave the stage.

747
00:37:35,672 --> 00:37:37,739
- Goodbye.
- (laughing)

748
00:37:37,774 --> 00:37:39,574
"She'd drink,
and sometimes I'd join her,

749
00:37:39,610 --> 00:37:42,210
though, inevitably,
I fell into a drunken heap

750
00:37:42,246 --> 00:37:44,746
hours before she did.

751
00:37:44,781 --> 00:37:46,648
Dusty was hell bent
on destruction,

752
00:37:46,683 --> 00:37:48,149
and we both knew it."

753
00:37:48,185 --> 00:37:49,851
(audience cheering,
applauding)

754
00:37:49,886 --> 00:37:51,820
Okay, well, we're going to
sing one of Carole's songs

755
00:37:51,855 --> 00:37:55,357
and Kevan's songs.
It's called "Softcore."

756
00:37:55,392 --> 00:37:57,826
¶ You brush by me ¶

757
00:37:57,861 --> 00:38:01,796
¶ And my whole
façade just melts ¶

758
00:38:03,467 --> 00:38:05,267
¶ You seem a bit twisted ¶

759
00:38:05,302 --> 00:38:09,904
¶ But that makes me
more intrigued ¶

760
00:38:09,940 --> 00:38:12,941
"'Softcore' was about
loving an alcoholic.

761
00:38:12,976 --> 00:38:15,577
It was ironic that
Dusty ended up recording it.

762
00:38:17,648 --> 00:38:19,614
I was vain and naive enough
to think that my loving her

763
00:38:19,650 --> 00:38:21,616
would make everything
alright."

764
00:38:21,652 --> 00:38:26,288
¶ Can't seem to get
a hold on your love ¶

765
00:38:28,091 --> 00:38:29,691
Carole:
"I cared deeply about her,

766
00:38:29,726 --> 00:38:31,426
but it was fucking up my life.

767
00:38:31,461 --> 00:38:34,396
I finally accepted the fact
that I had no control over

768
00:38:34,431 --> 00:38:36,364
her behaviour.

769
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,566
We broke up in LA.

770
00:38:38,602 --> 00:38:41,136
It was heart-wrenching.

771
00:38:41,171 --> 00:38:42,804
'White Heat' was released

772
00:38:42,839 --> 00:38:45,273
and there was
a dedication to me.

773
00:38:45,309 --> 00:38:48,977
'Because of, and in spite of,
Carole Pope.'

774
00:38:49,012 --> 00:38:53,214
I let her voice caress me
for years before I met her.

775
00:38:53,250 --> 00:38:56,785
The most erotic thing
we would do in bed was this.

776
00:38:56,820 --> 00:38:59,387
She would put
her mouth up to my ear,

777
00:38:59,423 --> 00:39:01,956
the sound of her voice,
so intimate and close,

778
00:39:01,992 --> 00:39:04,826
washed over me like
waves of pure pleasure."

779
00:39:04,861 --> 00:39:08,997
¶ Stay forever,
I will understand ¶

780
00:39:09,032 --> 00:39:14,035
¶ Believe me,
believe me ¶

781
00:39:15,105 --> 00:39:20,041
¶ Believe me... ¶

782
00:39:33,924 --> 00:39:36,891
Director:
Are you still open to love?

783
00:39:38,495 --> 00:39:42,731
Sure. I just haven't met
anybody in a long time.

784
00:39:42,766 --> 00:39:43,798
Or...

785
00:39:45,502 --> 00:39:50,405
I haven't been super interested
enough to really pursue anybody.

786
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:51,973
Director:
Are you lonely ever?

787
00:39:52,008 --> 00:39:54,809
No, I love me.
I'm very amusing.

788
00:39:54,845 --> 00:39:57,846
(director laughing)

789
00:39:57,881 --> 00:40:00,648
Director: What's great
about life right now?

790
00:40:00,684 --> 00:40:03,985
Doing this doc.
Performing.

791
00:40:04,020 --> 00:40:05,553
Putting out new music.

792
00:40:08,024 --> 00:40:11,025
I released a single called
"Play Fisty for Me,"

793
00:40:11,061 --> 00:40:14,462
which is a play on the film

794
00:40:14,498 --> 00:40:16,331
"Play Misty for Me."

795
00:40:16,366 --> 00:40:19,634
This song is about
fist fucking, um...

796
00:40:19,669 --> 00:40:22,837
Sometimes I just write songs
like that to amuse myself

797
00:40:22,873 --> 00:40:26,141
and you throw them out there
and see what happens.

798
00:40:26,176 --> 00:40:29,344
So I'm going to play you
"Play Fisty for Me."

799
00:40:29,379 --> 00:40:30,845
<i> ¶</i>

800
00:40:30,881 --> 00:40:34,716
<i> ¶ Big Sur Malibu Barbie ¶</i>

801
00:40:34,751 --> 00:40:38,720
<i> ¶ Driving your car down PCH ¶</i>

802
00:40:38,755 --> 00:40:43,291
<i> ¶ Tossing your hair</i>
<i> like you don't care ¶</i>

803
00:40:43,326 --> 00:40:45,894
<i> ¶ Play fisty for me ¶</i>

804
00:40:47,898 --> 00:40:51,299
Jasun: I still remember
walking into a Sunrise Records

805
00:40:51,334 --> 00:40:53,868
and "Shaking the Foundations"
was there

806
00:40:53,904 --> 00:40:56,638
and I gasped
when I saw that cover.

807
00:40:56,673 --> 00:41:00,241
It was a sort of 1950s
"Leave It to Beaver"

808
00:41:00,277 --> 00:41:03,578
idyllic family,
but mom is holding a shotgun

809
00:41:03,613 --> 00:41:06,047
aimed at dad's head.

810
00:41:06,082 --> 00:41:09,484
And it was provocative
and it was dangerous.

811
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:13,421
That wound up being a huge
part of my own personality,

812
00:41:13,457 --> 00:41:16,157
was being that
in people's faces,

813
00:41:16,193 --> 00:41:19,694
and, absolutely, Carole was
a huge role model for me.

814
00:41:19,729 --> 00:41:23,731
So, years later, a friend of
mine introduced me to Carole

815
00:41:23,767 --> 00:41:26,901
and I was just-- But I said,

816
00:41:26,937 --> 00:41:30,271
"Hey, if you ever
need a video done,

817
00:41:30,307 --> 00:41:33,041
give me a shout." She goes,
"Actually, I got a new song.

818
00:41:33,076 --> 00:41:35,410
I'm kind of looking
to do a video for it.

819
00:41:35,445 --> 00:41:37,245
I don't have
any budget at all."

820
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,447
But I'm like, "Honestly, Carole,
I don't care about the money.

821
00:41:39,483 --> 00:41:41,449
I am so glad that
I get to do a movie where

822
00:41:41,485 --> 00:41:43,017
a dick is not
going into a butt."

823
00:41:43,053 --> 00:41:45,253
It might actually
be fun to take,

824
00:41:45,288 --> 00:41:48,256
like, outtake clips.

825
00:41:48,291 --> 00:41:50,725
Just, like, close-ups on faces
and close-ups on this

826
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,027
and the bottle of lube
slipping over.

827
00:41:53,063 --> 00:41:55,129
Just do, like,
a montage of stuff like that.

828
00:41:55,165 --> 00:41:56,598
Sure, I would like
bits of porn in there.

829
00:41:56,633 --> 00:41:58,867
That would be nice
and distasteful.

830
00:41:58,902 --> 00:42:00,635
It would be very distasteful.

831
00:42:00,670 --> 00:42:02,437
You were the one who
kind of taught me to just

832
00:42:02,472 --> 00:42:04,405
do what you do.
Be as shocking

833
00:42:04,441 --> 00:42:06,407
and be as over the top
as you feel like,

834
00:42:06,443 --> 00:42:09,978
and let the reaction
be what it is, right?

835
00:42:14,584 --> 00:42:18,586
¶

836
00:42:18,622 --> 00:42:21,289
Sebastian: When "High School
Confidential" came out,

837
00:42:21,324 --> 00:42:23,491
I was not yet in high school.

838
00:42:23,527 --> 00:42:27,061
The story of
that song turned me on.

839
00:42:27,097 --> 00:42:29,831
I didn't understand
that this story is about

840
00:42:29,866 --> 00:42:31,099
a girl wanting a girl.

841
00:42:31,134 --> 00:42:34,102
¶ She's a cool ¶

842
00:42:34,137 --> 00:42:37,005
¶ Blonde, scheming bitch ¶

843
00:42:38,375 --> 00:42:41,943
¶ She makes my body twitch ¶

844
00:42:41,978 --> 00:42:46,014
¶ Walking down the corridor ¶

845
00:42:47,984 --> 00:42:50,251
Rob: Carole, in
"High School Confidential,"

846
00:42:50,287 --> 00:42:53,988
captures the feeling of lust
better than any songwriter

847
00:42:54,024 --> 00:42:55,356
I have ever known.

848
00:42:55,392 --> 00:43:00,194
¶ I want her so much,
I feel sick ¶

849
00:43:00,230 --> 00:43:02,964
An ethnic kid of immigrants
who's a straight male,

850
00:43:02,999 --> 00:43:06,334
in my neighbourhood,
we heard that song and thought,

851
00:43:06,369 --> 00:43:09,170
"That's a great fucking song."
Full stop.

852
00:43:09,205 --> 00:43:10,505
Then you hear it
a few more times

853
00:43:10,540 --> 00:43:12,440
and some lyrics pop in
and you go,

854
00:43:12,475 --> 00:43:14,609
"What?
What are we doing here?"

855
00:43:14,644 --> 00:43:19,514
¶ It makes me cream my jeans
when she come my way, oh ¶

856
00:43:19,549 --> 00:43:22,517
"She makes me cream my jeans
when she comes my way."

857
00:43:22,552 --> 00:43:24,852
I remember hearing that
on like,

858
00:43:24,888 --> 00:43:26,454
AM radio and I was going,

859
00:43:26,489 --> 00:43:29,157
"I can't believe
they're playing that."

860
00:43:29,192 --> 00:43:32,460
(laughing)
And I would turn it up louder!

861
00:43:32,495 --> 00:43:37,465
¶ High school,
high school confidential ¶

862
00:43:38,868 --> 00:43:40,668
Carole:
I think we hit on something

863
00:43:40,704 --> 00:43:43,271
because I was singing
about two women making love.

864
00:43:43,306 --> 00:43:47,675
We were disrupting the norm,
you know, pushing the envelope.

865
00:43:47,711 --> 00:43:51,512
Straight men thought it was hot,
queer people thought,

866
00:43:51,548 --> 00:43:55,049
"Finally there's somebody that's
speaking to my queerness."

867
00:43:55,085 --> 00:43:57,952
¶ If I don't get her soon,
I'll have a heart attack ¶

868
00:43:59,289 --> 00:44:00,922
Peaches:
My big bang was

869
00:44:00,957 --> 00:44:04,058
when I heard
"High School Confidential."

870
00:44:04,094 --> 00:44:08,196
I guess I was, like, 14,

871
00:44:08,231 --> 00:44:09,964
in suburban Toronto

872
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,067
on the edge of Steeles Avenue
and Bayview.

873
00:44:13,103 --> 00:44:17,138
"High School Confidential"
was a song about

874
00:44:17,173 --> 00:44:19,941
a woman in high school

875
00:44:19,976 --> 00:44:22,210
lusting after another woman,

876
00:44:22,245 --> 00:44:26,748
and also it was
a bona fide hit.

877
00:44:26,783 --> 00:44:28,616
It blew my mind.

878
00:44:28,652 --> 00:44:32,220
k.d. lang: I was probably
in my first year of college

879
00:44:32,255 --> 00:44:35,156
and I-- I didn't
listen to the radio.

880
00:44:35,191 --> 00:44:38,626
I was very, very alternative,
living my life.

881
00:44:38,662 --> 00:44:42,563
So I wasn't aware of
"High School Confidential"

882
00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:44,966
until I was watching
the Junos.

883
00:44:45,001 --> 00:44:48,636
<i> What can be said</i>
<i> about this next group?</i>

884
00:44:48,672 --> 00:44:51,973
In 1980, we were asked
to perform on the Junos,

885
00:44:52,008 --> 00:44:55,109
and the Junos was everything
because everybody watched them.

886
00:44:55,145 --> 00:44:59,013
I remember sort of sitting there
in my living room thinking,

887
00:44:59,049 --> 00:45:01,849
"Everybody else is sitting in
their living room watching this,

888
00:45:01,885 --> 00:45:03,651
and their parents
are watching this."

889
00:45:03,687 --> 00:45:06,587
<i> Over the past few years,</i>
<i> they have developed a huge</i>

890
00:45:06,623 --> 00:45:08,823
<i> cult following.</i>
<i> Known as one of the most</i>

891
00:45:08,858 --> 00:45:11,259
<i> provocative bands around</i>
<i> these parts, they've just--</i>

892
00:45:11,294 --> 00:45:13,194
Jann: My mom had a little
black and white television,

893
00:45:13,229 --> 00:45:14,996
and I believe I would
have been in about 10th grade.

894
00:45:15,031 --> 00:45:18,833
So, 16 years old
in southern Alberta.

895
00:45:18,868 --> 00:45:22,370
And I'm, you know,
ironing my dad's hankies.

896
00:45:22,405 --> 00:45:26,007
<i> Ladies and gentlemen,</i>
<i> Carole Pope and Rough Trade!</i>

897
00:45:26,042 --> 00:45:28,076
¶

898
00:45:33,249 --> 00:45:36,017
¶ She's a cool ¶

899
00:45:36,052 --> 00:45:39,887
¶ Blonde, scheming bitch ¶

900
00:45:39,923 --> 00:45:43,991
¶ She makes my body twitch ¶

901
00:45:44,027 --> 00:45:47,195
¶ Walking down the corridor ¶

902
00:45:47,230 --> 00:45:49,030
¶

903
00:45:49,065 --> 00:45:52,400
¶ You can hear ¶

904
00:45:52,435 --> 00:45:56,003
¶ Her high stilettos click ¶

905
00:45:56,039 --> 00:46:00,641
¶ I want her
so much I feel sick ¶

906
00:46:00,677 --> 00:46:02,677
¶ The girl can't help it ¶

907
00:46:02,712 --> 00:46:06,547
¶ She really can't help it now ¶

908
00:46:06,583 --> 00:46:08,816
¶ It's like a high school ¶

909
00:46:08,852 --> 00:46:13,020
¶ A high school confidential ¶

910
00:46:13,056 --> 00:46:16,724
k.d. lang: Carole's performance
on the Junos was so strong

911
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,528
and beautiful,
and just to see

912
00:46:20,563 --> 00:46:25,233
the unapologetic
matter-of-factness.

913
00:46:25,268 --> 00:46:28,936
Peaches: The way she was
expressing herself physically

914
00:46:28,972 --> 00:46:31,405
and with her humour,
this was like something

915
00:46:31,441 --> 00:46:34,008
I'd never seen,
and something I related to.

916
00:46:34,043 --> 00:46:37,345
¶ Combination Anita Eckberg ¶

917
00:46:37,380 --> 00:46:39,080
¶ Mamie Van Doren ¶

918
00:46:39,115 --> 00:46:44,118
¶ Dagmar,
a high school confidential ¶

919
00:46:44,154 --> 00:46:47,622
(audience cheering)

920
00:46:47,657 --> 00:46:51,526
Carole: We rehearsed at the CBC,
and they specifically asked me

921
00:46:51,561 --> 00:46:53,861
not to grab my crotch.

922
00:46:53,897 --> 00:46:57,198
And we did the run-through,
and I did not grab my crotch.

923
00:46:57,233 --> 00:46:58,966
¶ What's the principal
doing with her? ¶

924
00:46:59,002 --> 00:47:00,601
¶ Who's that guy? ¶

925
00:47:00,637 --> 00:47:03,104
And then on live TV,
of course I grabbed my crotch!

926
00:47:03,139 --> 00:47:05,072
¶ What's her perfume? ¶

927
00:47:05,108 --> 00:47:06,941
¶ Tigress by Fabergé ¶

928
00:47:06,976 --> 00:47:11,746
¶ It makes me cream my jeans
when she come my way, oh ¶

929
00:47:11,781 --> 00:47:16,317
Why? Because, you know,
don't tell me how to perform.

930
00:47:16,352 --> 00:47:18,452
¶ High school confidential ¶

931
00:47:18,488 --> 00:47:20,988
Jann: I think the Junos
literally sent me into

932
00:47:21,024 --> 00:47:23,758
a tizzy for a month.

933
00:47:23,793 --> 00:47:25,793
I'm sitting there ironing
my dad's kerchiefs, thinking,

934
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:28,863
"Well, maybe I can do this.
You can be anybody."

935
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,935
k.d. lang:
It was just like a recognition

936
00:47:33,970 --> 00:47:37,138
that "we are here."

937
00:47:37,173 --> 00:47:40,174
Just by being who she was
made me comfortable,

938
00:47:40,210 --> 00:47:42,877
and I just went,
"Yeah, we're gonna do this.

939
00:47:42,912 --> 00:47:44,579
We're gonna show up."

940
00:47:44,614 --> 00:47:46,581
¶

941
00:47:46,616 --> 00:47:48,216
Announcer: Peaches,
one of the most outspoken

942
00:47:48,251 --> 00:47:50,985
and daring musicians
performing today.

943
00:47:51,020 --> 00:47:53,754
Globally,
her impact is enormous.

944
00:47:53,790 --> 00:47:56,424
Announcer:
She's brash, she's sassy,

945
00:47:56,459 --> 00:47:59,160
and she's not afraid
to sing about sex.

946
00:47:59,195 --> 00:48:01,963
It's supposed to be humorous
and angry and funny,

947
00:48:01,998 --> 00:48:04,498
and why-- why do you have to
separate all of those things,

948
00:48:04,534 --> 00:48:05,666
- you know?
- Right.

949
00:48:05,702 --> 00:48:08,469
Much of Peaches
is her own doing,

950
00:48:08,504 --> 00:48:10,271
but the connection between
her and Carole doesn't seem

951
00:48:10,306 --> 00:48:12,240
very strange to me.
It seems very natural.

952
00:48:12,275 --> 00:48:15,443
Carole Pope, I heard her
at a very young age,

953
00:48:15,478 --> 00:48:17,845
and she really
captured my attention.

954
00:48:17,881 --> 00:48:19,981
¶ Rock 'n' Roll,
Rock 'n' Roll, Rock 'n' roll ¶

955
00:48:20,016 --> 00:48:23,150
When I started
my first solo band,

956
00:48:23,186 --> 00:48:24,652
I was like,
"I'm gonna find my way

957
00:48:24,687 --> 00:48:26,287
using Carole's inspiration."

958
00:48:26,322 --> 00:48:28,022
¶ Huh? What? ¶

959
00:48:28,057 --> 00:48:31,626
¶ Fuck the pain away,
fuck the pain away ¶

960
00:48:31,661 --> 00:48:33,995
Carole:
Maybe I gave her permission.

961
00:48:34,030 --> 00:48:35,263
She, like, took the idea

962
00:48:35,298 --> 00:48:37,265
and she really
fuckin' ran with it.

963
00:48:37,300 --> 00:48:40,034
¶ Fuck the pain away,
Fuck the pain away ¶

964
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:41,936
Peaches: We both lived
in LA around the same time,

965
00:48:41,971 --> 00:48:45,306
and then we started
to become friends

966
00:48:45,341 --> 00:48:48,709
and we got to collaborate on
"Lesbians in the Forest."

967
00:48:48,745 --> 00:48:52,213
¶ Nymphs, fairies, witches,
not a cock in sight ¶

968
00:48:52,248 --> 00:48:55,683
¶ 'Cause sisters are
doing themselves all night ¶

969
00:48:55,718 --> 00:49:00,187
¶ Yeah, lesbians
in the forest ¶

970
00:49:00,223 --> 00:49:03,557
¶

971
00:49:03,593 --> 00:49:07,595
¶ We're lesbians
in the forest ¶

972
00:49:09,933 --> 00:49:12,199
This year's
International Icon Award

973
00:49:12,235 --> 00:49:14,902
recipient is Peaches!

974
00:49:14,938 --> 00:49:18,339
(audience cheering,
applauding)

975
00:49:18,374 --> 00:49:20,308
Peach, you're such a badass.

976
00:49:20,343 --> 00:49:23,811
Every time I see you perform,
I'm blown away.

977
00:49:23,846 --> 00:49:25,212
I love you.

978
00:49:25,248 --> 00:49:27,848
Really, I've never seen
a performer like you,

979
00:49:27,884 --> 00:49:29,884
and I've seen everybody
and I've slept with everybody!

980
00:49:29,919 --> 00:49:33,421
(audience laughing,
applauding)

981
00:49:33,456 --> 00:49:36,257
Peaches: Thank you so much.
It's full circle,

982
00:49:36,292 --> 00:49:38,659
because when I was 13

983
00:49:38,695 --> 00:49:43,364
and I saw this one on TV

984
00:49:43,399 --> 00:49:46,267
and had this, like,
hit song that said--

985
00:49:46,302 --> 00:49:48,769
¶ It makes me cream my jeans ¶

986
00:49:48,805 --> 00:49:52,206
¶ When she comes my way ¶

987
00:49:52,241 --> 00:49:54,108
--I was awoken.

988
00:49:54,143 --> 00:49:56,610
(audience cheering,
applauding)

989
00:49:56,646 --> 00:50:00,348
And I never looked back,
and it's all your fault!

990
00:50:00,383 --> 00:50:05,252
(audience cheering,
applauding)

991
00:50:05,288 --> 00:50:10,124
¶

992
00:50:10,159 --> 00:50:13,961
¶ I pushed her tense face ¶

993
00:50:13,997 --> 00:50:17,231
¶ Away from me ¶

994
00:50:17,266 --> 00:50:20,901
¶ I pushed her tense face
away from me ¶

995
00:50:20,937 --> 00:50:23,604
Carole:
People really loved this song.

996
00:50:23,639 --> 00:50:28,209
I obviously was, like, kind of
at the top of my '80s game.

997
00:50:28,244 --> 00:50:31,245
¶ Like a razor blade on glass ¶

998
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,715
¶ All touch, but no contact ¶

999
00:50:34,751 --> 00:50:36,150
¶ It hit me like,
it hit me like,

1000
00:50:36,185 --> 00:50:37,618
¶ It hit me like a slap ¶

1001
00:50:37,653 --> 00:50:41,288
¶ Oh-oh, all touch ¶

1002
00:50:41,324 --> 00:50:42,623
TV Host:
Here is the album Rough Trade,

1003
00:50:42,658 --> 00:50:43,924
it's "For Those
Who Think Young,"

1004
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:45,259
an excellent album,

1005
00:50:45,294 --> 00:50:46,994
and I hope we hear
a lot more of them.

1006
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:49,296
Rough Trade, already hitting
Adelaide and Perth.

1007
00:50:49,332 --> 00:50:52,133
¶ Rim of a cocktail glass ¶

1008
00:50:52,168 --> 00:50:54,969
Carole: "All Touch"
did chart in the U.S.

1009
00:50:55,004 --> 00:50:58,672
We were just beside ourselves
to hear our music on the radio

1010
00:50:58,708 --> 00:51:02,109
and to get to be on TV
and get to do great gigs

1011
00:51:02,145 --> 00:51:04,412
and to meet amazing people.

1012
00:51:04,447 --> 00:51:06,313
We were getting
a lot of attention.

1013
00:51:06,349 --> 00:51:09,683
Like, "Oh my god, we're--
we're happening."

1014
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:14,655
¶ All touch
and all touch and no contact ¶

1015
00:51:14,690 --> 00:51:16,424
I literally cannot
walk down the street

1016
00:51:16,459 --> 00:51:18,159
without being recognized.

1017
00:51:18,194 --> 00:51:19,827
I don't know what to do.

1018
00:51:19,862 --> 00:51:21,862
Jeanne: When you talk
about being successful,

1019
00:51:21,898 --> 00:51:23,030
what does that mean to you?

1020
00:51:23,066 --> 00:51:24,331
Where do you see
yourself down the road?

1021
00:51:24,367 --> 00:51:26,200
Carole:
I mean, we want to, you know,

1022
00:51:26,235 --> 00:51:28,002
get an American record deal
and make some albums

1023
00:51:28,037 --> 00:51:29,537
and do all that.

1024
00:51:29,572 --> 00:51:32,239
What can I say?
I hope we sell a million.

1025
00:51:36,245 --> 00:51:37,511
¶ Let's dance ¶

1026
00:51:37,547 --> 00:51:41,549
¶ Put on your red shoes
and dance the blues ¶

1027
00:51:41,584 --> 00:51:44,552
The Serious Moonlight Tour
is currently certified

1028
00:51:44,587 --> 00:51:47,221
as the biggest ever
in the history of rock.

1029
00:51:47,256 --> 00:51:50,124
Fans enjoyed performances by
his special guests,

1030
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:52,259
Rough Trade.

1031
00:51:52,295 --> 00:51:53,828
Ten years
and five albums later,

1032
00:51:53,863 --> 00:51:55,362
they're on
the verge of full-fledged,

1033
00:51:55,398 --> 00:51:57,331
international star status.

1034
00:51:57,366 --> 00:51:59,834
It's a pleasure to turn
now to the Juno Award-winning

1035
00:51:59,869 --> 00:52:03,070
combination of Carole Pope
and Kevan Staples.

1036
00:52:03,106 --> 00:52:04,405
This is Rough Trade.

1037
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,509
¶

1038
00:52:08,544 --> 00:52:10,444
It was just like pure joy.

1039
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,514
It was fabulous to do those
gigs in front of that audience.

1040
00:52:13,549 --> 00:52:16,684
¶ Her hands slid down into ¶

1041
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,354
¶ The moistness of herself ¶

1042
00:52:20,389 --> 00:52:24,325
¶ She pulled her knees up
spread eagle on the bed ¶

1043
00:52:25,595 --> 00:52:27,595
So, we'd get up
and we'd do a set,

1044
00:52:27,630 --> 00:52:32,299
and I could see David
watching us from the sidelines

1045
00:52:32,335 --> 00:52:33,801
and went, "Oh my God,
David's watching us."

1046
00:52:33,836 --> 00:52:35,870
¶ Crimes ¶

1047
00:52:35,905 --> 00:52:38,772
¶ Crimes of passion ¶

1048
00:52:38,808 --> 00:52:41,242
Rob:
Bowie apparently liked them.

1049
00:52:41,277 --> 00:52:43,777
His management
reached out and said

1050
00:52:43,813 --> 00:52:45,713
Bowie would be interested in
having them open up for him

1051
00:52:45,748 --> 00:52:48,215
on further dates,
which would be big exposure,

1052
00:52:48,251 --> 00:52:49,683
obviously, for the group.

1053
00:52:51,154 --> 00:52:53,954
Now, Rough Trade was not
in a position to afford

1054
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:58,092
to do that kind of travelling,
full band, equipment,

1055
00:52:58,127 --> 00:52:59,727
techs, and so on.

1056
00:53:01,664 --> 00:53:03,597
So, they go to the major,
in this case, Columbia Records

1057
00:53:03,633 --> 00:53:05,399
and they asked
for tour support.

1058
00:53:05,434 --> 00:53:07,301
(song ending)

1059
00:53:07,336 --> 00:53:09,303
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1060
00:53:09,338 --> 00:53:10,337
Thank you!

1061
00:53:10,373 --> 00:53:14,008
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1062
00:53:14,043 --> 00:53:17,011
They would not
give us tour support.

1063
00:53:17,046 --> 00:53:20,681
Columbia thought this is
not worth the investment,

1064
00:53:20,716 --> 00:53:23,284
and, obviously, as a band,
that's crushing.

1065
00:53:23,319 --> 00:53:24,585
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1066
00:53:24,620 --> 00:53:26,787
Thank you and goodnight!

1067
00:53:26,822 --> 00:53:29,957
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1068
00:53:29,992 --> 00:53:33,994
Carole: We could have gone on
to Australia, the U.S.

1069
00:53:35,631 --> 00:53:37,898
It certainly would have
helped us break out as artists.

1070
00:53:43,139 --> 00:53:47,274
It just ruined all the momentum
that we had going forward.

1071
00:53:47,310 --> 00:53:48,475
Director:
Are you bitter about that?

1072
00:53:48,511 --> 00:53:49,577
Fuck, yeah!

1073
00:54:14,737 --> 00:54:17,972
Carole: In the late '80s,
I really wanted to go to LA

1074
00:54:18,007 --> 00:54:20,074
to see if I could
get a record deal.

1075
00:54:20,109 --> 00:54:22,977
I was trying to manifest
a recording career

1076
00:54:23,012 --> 00:54:27,248
as a solo artist,
but did not happen.

1077
00:54:27,283 --> 00:54:29,783
Nobody rolled out
the red carpet for me.

1078
00:54:31,754 --> 00:54:33,187
You know what's funny?
I was just reading something

1079
00:54:33,222 --> 00:54:34,822
on you, Carole,
and somebody asked you your age,

1080
00:54:34,857 --> 00:54:36,657
because we're
speaking about that,

1081
00:54:36,692 --> 00:54:39,693
and you said, "I'm however old
Alannah Myles says she is."

1082
00:54:39,729 --> 00:54:41,195
- (laughing)
- Whatever.

1083
00:54:41,230 --> 00:54:42,830
Man: At a certain point,
it matters less and less,

1084
00:54:42,865 --> 00:54:44,098
- I find.
- Yeah.

1085
00:54:44,133 --> 00:54:46,100
No, you haven't
reached that age yet.

1086
00:54:46,135 --> 00:54:48,102
Carole:
Maybe age did factor into it,

1087
00:54:48,137 --> 00:54:52,506
and also in retrospect,
I don't think my songwriting

1088
00:54:52,541 --> 00:54:54,241
was good enough at that point.

1089
00:54:56,145 --> 00:54:58,612
Rob:
Popular music's an ageist world,

1090
00:54:58,648 --> 00:55:00,281
especially if you
want to be cutting edge.

1091
00:55:02,418 --> 00:55:04,285
Carole:
I was disappointed at first,

1092
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,554
but I evolved as a songwriter,

1093
00:55:07,590 --> 00:55:09,223
got to work with
some amazing musicians,

1094
00:55:09,258 --> 00:55:12,259
had a really great band in LA

1095
00:55:12,295 --> 00:55:15,062
Eventually, I was just like,
"I'm just gonna self-release.

1096
00:55:15,097 --> 00:55:18,532
I'm gonna be the boss of me
and record my own stuff."

1097
00:55:18,567 --> 00:55:20,401
Announcer: She's back in
the spotlight again.

1098
00:55:20,436 --> 00:55:21,869
Pope entertained
with material from

1099
00:55:21,904 --> 00:55:24,905
her just-released
solo CD, "Radiate."

1100
00:55:24,940 --> 00:55:27,408
Carole: The craziest thing
I did was this EP

1101
00:55:27,443 --> 00:55:30,077
called "Music for Lesbians."

1102
00:55:30,112 --> 00:55:33,547
I own all my masters
and I'm in creative control.

1103
00:55:33,582 --> 00:55:35,215
George:
You have another record!

1104
00:55:35,251 --> 00:55:36,550
Finally.

1105
00:55:36,585 --> 00:55:39,820
Is it harder to try to

1106
00:55:39,855 --> 00:55:41,955
find your way into relevance
in the modern culture?

1107
00:55:41,991 --> 00:55:43,757
Is it harder to get people
to know that you're still

1108
00:55:43,793 --> 00:55:45,759
doing this and you still
have a relative voice?

1109
00:55:45,795 --> 00:55:49,330
God, yeah. It's like, you know,
it's stressful to be me.

1110
00:55:49,365 --> 00:55:53,100
You know, I had to
raise the money to make it,

1111
00:55:53,135 --> 00:55:57,971
but then all these great
players ended up being on it,

1112
00:55:58,007 --> 00:56:01,442
and I'm really,
really happy with it.

1113
00:56:01,477 --> 00:56:03,610
I look at Carole Pope
and I'm like,

1114
00:56:03,646 --> 00:56:06,113
"For the bulk of your life,
you've been you."

1115
00:56:06,148 --> 00:56:09,383
She's so authentic to her,

1116
00:56:09,418 --> 00:56:11,585
probably for good and for bad.

1117
00:56:11,620 --> 00:56:13,420
(elevator bell dinging)

1118
00:56:13,456 --> 00:56:15,723
Carole:
Come on, everyone!

1119
00:56:15,758 --> 00:56:18,959
I'm not willing to compromise
on making music the way

1120
00:56:18,994 --> 00:56:21,228
I want to make music
or performing music the way

1121
00:56:21,263 --> 00:56:22,830
I want to perform music.

1122
00:56:22,865 --> 00:56:24,431
¶

1123
00:56:24,467 --> 00:56:26,233
Man: We have the moment
you've been waiting for.

1124
00:56:26,268 --> 00:56:29,770
The icon, the legend that
is Carole Pope in the house.

1125
00:56:29,805 --> 00:56:34,775
<i> ¶ Play fisty for me ¶</i>

1126
00:56:34,810 --> 00:56:37,978
<i> ¶</i>

1127
00:56:38,013 --> 00:56:41,014
"Play Fisty for Me," Carole Pope
here on the Shaun Proulx Show.

1128
00:56:41,050 --> 00:56:42,349
You're such a naughty girl.

1129
00:56:42,385 --> 00:56:44,251
(both laughing)

1130
00:56:44,286 --> 00:56:46,620
It's a good gay anthem.
I hope it turns into--

1131
00:56:46,655 --> 00:56:49,456
It's a great gay anthem.
I think it's a sexy song.

1132
00:56:49,492 --> 00:56:50,424
Yeah.

1133
00:56:50,459 --> 00:56:52,259
I'm so happy to see you.

1134
00:56:52,294 --> 00:56:53,527
I'm happy to see you!

1135
00:56:53,562 --> 00:56:55,496
I always feel
so good when I see you.

1136
00:56:55,531 --> 00:56:56,663
You give me the good vibes.

1137
00:56:56,699 --> 00:56:57,765
Oh, me too.

1138
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,333
I think you ooze sex.

1139
00:56:59,368 --> 00:57:00,701
Really?

1140
00:57:00,736 --> 00:57:02,302
I do, I do, and I think
that's another reason

1141
00:57:02,338 --> 00:57:04,004
why everyone loves you.

1142
00:57:04,039 --> 00:57:05,706
Um, well, that's flattering.

1143
00:57:05,741 --> 00:57:07,641
- Yeah.
- 'Cause I'm 105 years old.

1144
00:57:07,676 --> 00:57:09,276
(both laughing)

1145
00:57:09,311 --> 00:57:11,278
Pride's coming up
and I wonder what you make of

1146
00:57:11,313 --> 00:57:13,213
all of the attacks on
the queer community,

1147
00:57:13,249 --> 00:57:14,782
the trans community, especially.

1148
00:57:14,817 --> 00:57:17,618
The right wing is
following the Hitler playbook.

1149
00:57:17,653 --> 00:57:20,687
Let's pick on minorities.
Let's pick on the gays.

1150
00:57:20,723 --> 00:57:25,359
Let's pick on people of colour.
Let's pick on immigrants.

1151
00:57:25,394 --> 00:57:27,361
You know, it's not new.
Not new to me.

1152
00:57:27,396 --> 00:57:31,064
What must we do in
the face of all of this?

1153
00:57:31,100 --> 00:57:35,903
We must educate ourselves
and be aware of what's going on

1154
00:57:35,938 --> 00:57:38,639
and fight back, as always.

1155
00:57:38,674 --> 00:57:41,875
(people shouting, cheering)

1156
00:57:41,911 --> 00:57:44,478
Man: Off the sidewalks,
into the street!

1157
00:57:46,715 --> 00:57:49,416
Protestors:
Act up! Fight back! Fight AIDS!

1158
00:57:49,452 --> 00:57:53,153
Act up! Fight back! Fight AIDS!

1159
00:57:53,189 --> 00:57:55,322
Carole:
All of New York is ghosty to me.

1160
00:57:58,761 --> 00:58:01,228
When Rough Trade
started performing,

1161
00:58:01,263 --> 00:58:04,698
we were in New York all the time
and we were part of that scene

1162
00:58:04,733 --> 00:58:08,368
of artists and crazy bands

1163
00:58:08,404 --> 00:58:10,704
and the Mapplethorpe era,

1164
00:58:10,739 --> 00:58:13,607
performance art and all of that.

1165
00:58:13,642 --> 00:58:16,443
We craved that lifestyle
and those people,

1166
00:58:16,479 --> 00:58:20,347
and it was just more uninhibited
and people were open to

1167
00:58:20,382 --> 00:58:23,283
what we were doing
and it was just an amazing time.

1168
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,754
Panic back stage,
I can't get my guitar.

1169
00:58:27,790 --> 00:58:29,523
Carole: My brother,
Howard, moved to New York

1170
00:58:29,558 --> 00:58:31,024
in the early '80s.

1171
00:58:31,060 --> 00:58:33,694
He was in a crazy
avant-garde band called Zette.

1172
00:58:33,729 --> 00:58:36,296
¶

1173
00:58:36,332 --> 00:58:38,198
We hung out all the time.

1174
00:58:38,234 --> 00:58:42,870
We bonded when it came to music
and we loved art.

1175
00:58:42,905 --> 00:58:44,605
We loved a lot
of the same things.

1176
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,375
(singing indistinctly)

1177
00:58:48,410 --> 00:58:52,446
He was like the male version
of me, but only more radical.

1178
00:58:52,481 --> 00:58:53,914
¶

1179
00:58:53,949 --> 00:58:58,552
Yeah, there are some meat
packing from ye olden days.

1180
00:58:58,587 --> 00:59:00,721
Howard took me to
the Meat Packing District

1181
00:59:00,756 --> 00:59:03,390
and we went to gay bars.

1182
00:59:03,425 --> 00:59:06,827
Yeah, my brother, Howard,
enjoyed the best of New York

1183
00:59:06,862 --> 00:59:08,262
and worked at
all these great bars.

1184
00:59:08,297 --> 00:59:11,131
He went to these amazing clubs.

1185
00:59:11,166 --> 00:59:14,368
But when AIDS first started,
it just spread like wildfire.

1186
00:59:17,206 --> 00:59:19,773
We weren't sure you couldn't
drink from the same glass,

1187
00:59:19,808 --> 00:59:22,442
you weren't sure you
could be in the same space,

1188
00:59:22,478 --> 00:59:25,245
but no one was helping you,
no one was looking for a cure.

1189
00:59:25,281 --> 00:59:27,981
It took two years of
the whole pandemic

1190
00:59:28,017 --> 00:59:29,750
to even mention the word AIDS.

1191
00:59:29,785 --> 00:59:33,153
Carole:
So many great artists died.

1192
00:59:33,188 --> 00:59:35,989
If I was to try
and start and write a list,

1193
00:59:36,025 --> 00:59:38,325
I wouldn't be able to
because I'd be in tears after

1194
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,093
the third or fourth name.

1195
00:59:40,129 --> 00:59:42,996
Carole: I was like,
"I wanna do what I can

1196
00:59:43,032 --> 00:59:44,998
to help educate people."

1197
00:59:45,034 --> 00:59:47,701
Reporter: Tonight's benefit
raised about $50,000 to help

1198
00:59:47,736 --> 00:59:51,204
build a place for AIDS
victims to die with dignity.

1199
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:52,873
It's called a hospice.

1200
00:59:52,908 --> 00:59:55,275
You know, they should just
make it as pleasant as possible.

1201
00:59:55,311 --> 00:59:59,346
I mean, you know
it's gonna happen. Um...

1202
00:59:59,381 --> 01:00:01,281
It really should be
done with dignity.

1203
01:00:01,317 --> 01:00:03,784
Protestors:
Act up! Fight back! Fight AIDS!

1204
01:00:03,819 --> 01:00:06,620
Act up! Fight back! Fight AIDS!

1205
01:00:06,655 --> 01:00:09,289
Carole:
Howard got involved in Act Up,

1206
01:00:09,325 --> 01:00:12,526
because doctors
and politicians were

1207
01:00:12,561 --> 01:00:14,027
ignoring this
while it was going on.

1208
01:00:14,063 --> 01:00:16,363
Protestors:
Healthcare is a right!

1209
01:00:16,398 --> 01:00:18,165
Healthcare is a right!

1210
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:22,002
Healthcare is a right!
Healthcare is a right!

1211
01:00:22,037 --> 01:00:23,236
Healthcare is--

1212
01:00:23,272 --> 01:00:27,007
Howard called and he said,

1213
01:00:27,042 --> 01:00:28,842
"I'm positive."

1214
01:00:28,877 --> 01:00:32,679
It was completely shocking.

1215
01:00:34,249 --> 01:00:37,384
I just tried to be
with him as much as possible

1216
01:00:37,419 --> 01:00:40,020
and support him.

1217
01:00:40,055 --> 01:00:42,889
I was in Toronto,

1218
01:00:42,925 --> 01:00:45,525
and my sister
called me and said,

1219
01:00:45,561 --> 01:00:47,728
"It's not looking
good for Howard.

1220
01:00:47,763 --> 01:00:50,230
You should come,"
And I got on a plane

1221
01:00:50,265 --> 01:00:52,132
and just didn't make it
in time.

1222
01:00:52,167 --> 01:00:54,935
He died while
I was flying there.

1223
01:00:54,970 --> 01:00:58,605
He was just such
a bright light to me,

1224
01:00:58,641 --> 01:01:00,607
such an inspiration.

1225
01:01:00,643 --> 01:01:02,709
I really, really loved Howard,

1226
01:01:02,745 --> 01:01:06,113
and I just miss him
all the time.

1227
01:01:06,148 --> 01:01:08,949
Sometimes I feel haunted
by an army of ghosts,

1228
01:01:08,984 --> 01:01:13,053
because these beautiful,
bright lights were gone,

1229
01:01:13,088 --> 01:01:14,888
these really radical thinkers,

1230
01:01:14,923 --> 01:01:18,058
but I feel lucky to have
met a lot of those people

1231
01:01:18,093 --> 01:01:19,626
and seen their art,

1232
01:01:19,662 --> 01:01:22,996
and I want them
to be celebrated.

1233
01:01:23,032 --> 01:01:25,098
It was just an amazing time.

1234
01:01:25,134 --> 01:01:30,070
(waves lapping)

1235
01:01:30,105 --> 01:01:32,506
¶

1236
01:01:37,546 --> 01:01:38,912
Director:
When playing Prides,

1237
01:01:38,947 --> 01:01:40,847
does it still mean
something to you?

1238
01:01:40,883 --> 01:01:42,816
Of course it does.

1239
01:01:44,453 --> 01:01:47,587
I remember how freaking
hard it was for me to come out,

1240
01:01:47,623 --> 01:01:50,590
you know,
when I first had those crazy,

1241
01:01:50,626 --> 01:01:54,161
crazy lesbo stirrings.
(laughing)

1242
01:01:54,196 --> 01:01:57,497
We've come a long way,
and I just have so much love

1243
01:01:57,533 --> 01:01:59,800
and so much history in Toronto.

1244
01:01:59,835 --> 01:02:01,168
Just keep fighting
the good fight

1245
01:02:01,203 --> 01:02:02,969
and I love you all so much!

1246
01:02:03,005 --> 01:02:05,138
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1247
01:02:05,174 --> 01:02:06,540
Over all these years,

1248
01:02:06,575 --> 01:02:08,775
I've probably played
hundreds of Prides.

1249
01:02:10,245 --> 01:02:13,113
Really nostalgic about
the early Toronto Prides

1250
01:02:13,148 --> 01:02:15,348
when it was just
on Church Street

1251
01:02:15,384 --> 01:02:17,217
and you were more or less
standing on a milk carton.

1252
01:02:18,821 --> 01:02:21,288
I don't know, I just thought
that time was really sexy.

1253
01:02:21,323 --> 01:02:23,790
I guess that was the '90s.

1254
01:02:23,826 --> 01:02:25,859
Everybody was so joyous then,

1255
01:02:25,894 --> 01:02:27,160
and I don't think
we felt threatened.

1256
01:02:27,196 --> 01:02:28,895
We're just like,
"This is our street.

1257
01:02:28,931 --> 01:02:30,564
This is our Pride.

1258
01:02:30,599 --> 01:02:32,232
We're gonna,
you know, go insane."

1259
01:02:32,267 --> 01:02:34,801
(people cheering)

1260
01:02:34,837 --> 01:02:39,239
And now it's more corporate,
more haters.

1261
01:02:40,709 --> 01:02:42,843
Director:
More haters now?

1262
01:02:42,878 --> 01:02:45,846
Well, they're just more visible.

1263
01:02:45,881 --> 01:02:48,215
Rufus Wainwright: Things are
really crumbling in terms of

1264
01:02:48,250 --> 01:02:51,585
gay rights and women's rights
and trans rights.

1265
01:02:51,620 --> 01:02:53,754
We seem to be going
backwards in this department,

1266
01:02:53,789 --> 01:02:57,858
and I actually feel that
a lot of the toughness

1267
01:02:57,893 --> 01:03:00,560
and a lot of the grit
that Carole's generation

1268
01:03:00,596 --> 01:03:04,264
has exhibited we're gonna need,
because we don't know how this

1269
01:03:04,299 --> 01:03:05,232
baby is going to end.

1270
01:03:05,267 --> 01:03:06,933
¶

1271
01:03:14,576 --> 01:03:16,610
Woman: I'm excited for
your performance today!

1272
01:03:16,645 --> 01:03:18,078
Oh, thank you.

1273
01:03:18,113 --> 01:03:19,346
Would you sign this
record for me, please?

1274
01:03:19,381 --> 01:03:20,614
Carole, may I take
a photo with you?

1275
01:03:20,649 --> 01:03:21,715
Sure.

1276
01:03:21,750 --> 01:03:23,116
Thank you so much for stopping.

1277
01:03:23,152 --> 01:03:24,885
Nick, come closer, come closer.
A little higher.

1278
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,052
Thank you!

1279
01:03:26,088 --> 01:03:27,854
You really changed
my high school.

1280
01:03:27,890 --> 01:03:29,589
Sign this to Nicholas?

1281
01:03:29,625 --> 01:03:30,891
Like
"High School Confidential,"

1282
01:03:30,926 --> 01:03:32,459
really,
like for us queer kids.

1283
01:03:32,494 --> 01:03:34,628
Oh, my gosh.

1284
01:03:34,663 --> 01:03:37,030
(fans chattering)

1285
01:03:37,065 --> 01:03:40,367
Stage Manager:
You're on at 8:10.

1286
01:03:40,402 --> 01:03:42,702
So, you wanna be
ready to go up,

1287
01:03:42,738 --> 01:03:45,539
standby, by 8:00 o'clock.

1288
01:03:45,574 --> 01:03:47,040
Okay. Is that your name, Slut?

1289
01:03:47,075 --> 01:03:48,108
- Yes!
- Oh.

1290
01:03:48,143 --> 01:03:49,242
- Very nice.
- Thank you.

1291
01:03:49,278 --> 01:03:50,977
- See you soon.
- Bye. Okay.

1292
01:03:52,514 --> 01:03:55,582
(audience cheering)

1293
01:03:55,617 --> 01:03:57,818
Happy Pride, Toronto!

1294
01:03:57,853 --> 01:04:00,787
(audience cheering)

1295
01:04:00,823 --> 01:04:03,723
Oh, here's a song about sex,
just for a change.

1296
01:04:03,759 --> 01:04:05,559
This is called
"Crimes of Passion."

1297
01:04:05,594 --> 01:04:07,494
(audience cheering)

1298
01:04:07,529 --> 01:04:11,464
¶

1299
01:04:11,500 --> 01:04:13,099
I was a gay 14-year-old.

1300
01:04:13,135 --> 01:04:16,803
¶ Johnny and Eddie lay in bed ¶

1301
01:04:16,839 --> 01:04:20,207
¶ Their limbs entwined ¶

1302
01:04:20,242 --> 01:04:23,543
"Johnny and Eddie lay in bed,
their legs entwined."

1303
01:04:23,579 --> 01:04:27,113
¶ Their tanned bodies
bathed in sweat ¶

1304
01:04:27,149 --> 01:04:30,450
¶ They look like
two young gods ¶

1305
01:04:30,485 --> 01:04:32,586
"Their tanned bodies
bathed in sweat.

1306
01:04:32,621 --> 01:04:34,821
They look like
two young gods."

1307
01:04:34,857 --> 01:04:36,656
At that moment,
I remember just going,

1308
01:04:36,692 --> 01:04:40,660
"Wait, so I can actually grow up
and be a young god.

1309
01:04:40,696 --> 01:04:42,429
I don't have to be
these awful things

1310
01:04:42,464 --> 01:04:43,563
that other people
are calling me."

1311
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:45,298
¶ Beg for his life ¶

1312
01:04:45,334 --> 01:04:49,669
Carole: I always thought that
gay men were very beautiful,

1313
01:04:49,705 --> 01:04:53,340
and I was very turned on
by just the whole gay image.

1314
01:04:53,375 --> 01:04:55,675
They had Tom of Finland.

1315
01:04:55,711 --> 01:04:58,778
I loved all the leather daddies,
the S&M.

1316
01:04:58,814 --> 01:05:00,113
I thought they were erotic

1317
01:05:00,148 --> 01:05:02,682
and I did compare them
to Greek gods.

1318
01:05:02,718 --> 01:05:04,651
I wanted people to know that's--

1319
01:05:04,686 --> 01:05:06,853
that's the way
I thought of gay men.

1320
01:05:06,889 --> 01:05:10,357
¶ Crimes of passion
Crimes of passion ¶

1321
01:05:10,392 --> 01:05:11,658
¶ Crimes ¶

1322
01:05:11,693 --> 01:05:13,159
Jasun:
That was the first time that

1323
01:05:13,195 --> 01:05:16,963
I ever heard gay men described

1324
01:05:16,999 --> 01:05:20,800
in a positive, sexual, sexy way.

1325
01:05:20,836 --> 01:05:22,502
¶ Crimes ¶

1326
01:05:22,537 --> 01:05:24,871
Rufus: When I went to
make my first records in LA,

1327
01:05:24,907 --> 01:05:27,974
it was nerve-wracking
for a lot of executives.

1328
01:05:28,010 --> 01:05:29,709
They were kind of nitpicking
through my lyrics, you know,

1329
01:05:29,745 --> 01:05:32,012
just to, "Can't you just
pretend to be bisexual?"

1330
01:05:32,047 --> 01:05:35,382
Like, there was like a real
push to put me into this box,

1331
01:05:35,417 --> 01:05:37,951
and then you listen to
what Carole was putting out

1332
01:05:37,986 --> 01:05:39,886
and it's like, wow.

1333
01:05:39,922 --> 01:05:44,391
¶ Crimes of passion ¶

1334
01:05:44,426 --> 01:05:47,827
I think she's saved thousands
and thousands of people.

1335
01:05:47,863 --> 01:05:51,631
Not just young women.
Queer men, trans people.

1336
01:05:51,667 --> 01:05:55,302
By writing things that people
could attach themselves to.

1337
01:05:55,337 --> 01:05:57,404
¶ Crimes of passion ¶

1338
01:05:57,439 --> 01:05:59,172
That's what music's about.

1339
01:05:59,207 --> 01:06:02,542
¶ Crimes, crimes ¶

1340
01:06:02,577 --> 01:06:05,178
¶ Crimes of passion ¶

1341
01:06:05,213 --> 01:06:09,215
(audience cheering)

1342
01:06:10,786 --> 01:06:13,219
Carole:
Woo! Oh, thank you so much!

1343
01:06:13,255 --> 01:06:14,921
(audience cheering)

1344
01:06:14,957 --> 01:06:19,859
Uh-oh. I am not on
my monitor anymore.

1345
01:06:19,895 --> 01:06:20,961
Monitor, Sweetie.

1346
01:06:23,131 --> 01:06:26,599
Oh, is that-
Oh, I think we're cut off.

1347
01:06:26,635 --> 01:06:28,935
Are we cut off?

1348
01:06:28,971 --> 01:06:30,937
They didn't have
a stage manager.

1349
01:06:30,973 --> 01:06:34,374
Every festival needs
a stage manager to tell you

1350
01:06:34,409 --> 01:06:36,609
when you're on
and when you're off.

1351
01:06:36,645 --> 01:06:39,713
Every fucking festival
I've played at has that

1352
01:06:39,748 --> 01:06:41,348
except this one.

1353
01:06:41,383 --> 01:06:44,918
(audience jeering)

1354
01:06:44,953 --> 01:06:46,753
Sorry!

1355
01:06:46,788 --> 01:06:51,691
(audience cheering)

1356
01:06:51,727 --> 01:06:53,593
Oh, we got cut off.

1357
01:06:53,628 --> 01:06:55,362
I didn't know
that was gonna happen.

1358
01:06:55,397 --> 01:06:56,796
I'm so sorry.
It was over time,

1359
01:06:56,832 --> 01:06:58,231
and we were
going into changeover.

1360
01:06:58,266 --> 01:07:00,400
Oh, okay.

1361
01:07:00,435 --> 01:07:01,901
Well, I wish
somebody had told us.

1362
01:07:01,937 --> 01:07:03,236
She wants to
walk on with the mic,

1363
01:07:03,271 --> 01:07:04,637
so she'll take it.

1364
01:07:07,676 --> 01:07:10,643
So insulting!
Cheers, not queers!

1365
01:07:10,679 --> 01:07:13,146
Cheers, not queers.

1366
01:07:13,181 --> 01:07:15,915
Man: They could have given us
a fuckin' five-minute warning.

1367
01:07:15,951 --> 01:07:17,884
But as I was saying to Carole,
in our 38 years--

1368
01:07:17,919 --> 01:07:19,586
Never!

1369
01:07:19,621 --> 01:07:21,554
Never have we ever
had that happen.

1370
01:07:21,590 --> 01:07:22,622
- No.
- It was disrespectful.

1371
01:07:22,657 --> 01:07:23,623
Yeah.

1372
01:07:23,658 --> 01:07:25,625
Yeah. I know, I wish--

1373
01:07:25,660 --> 01:07:30,663
(audience cheering)

1374
01:07:32,167 --> 01:07:33,933
This era doesn't
care about history.

1375
01:07:33,969 --> 01:07:36,803
It's just not important to
a lot of the younger people,

1376
01:07:36,838 --> 01:07:40,907
which is fine,
but I would want people to

1377
01:07:40,942 --> 01:07:45,512
try to remember all of
the energy it would have taken

1378
01:07:45,547 --> 01:07:48,915
to walk out into the '70s

1379
01:07:48,950 --> 01:07:51,084
and be Carole Pope.

1380
01:07:51,119 --> 01:07:53,753
Women didn't get
to look like her,

1381
01:07:53,789 --> 01:07:55,755
didn't get to speak like her,

1382
01:07:55,791 --> 01:07:59,959
didn't get to
present anything like her.

1383
01:07:59,995 --> 01:08:03,096
You know, there are a lot of
people standing on the shoulders

1384
01:08:03,131 --> 01:08:05,498
of Carole Pope,
and they don't even know it.

1385
01:08:08,336 --> 01:08:11,971
¶

1386
01:08:12,007 --> 01:08:14,174
(horns honking)

1387
01:08:18,013 --> 01:08:20,713
Hey, it's me.

1388
01:08:20,749 --> 01:08:22,048
Carole and chaos.

1389
01:08:22,084 --> 01:08:24,350
I'm in a mirrored room.

1390
01:08:24,386 --> 01:08:27,754
It's kind of pretty glamorous
and kinky at the same time.

1391
01:08:29,558 --> 01:08:32,025
This is New York.

1392
01:08:32,060 --> 01:08:35,995
It's like
90 fucking degrees out.

1393
01:08:36,031 --> 01:08:39,165
I'm apartment hunting.
Over and out.

1394
01:08:41,369 --> 01:08:43,536
I'm trying to find
an apartment in New York,

1395
01:08:43,572 --> 01:08:46,439
but it's crazy because
I'm competing with 250

1396
01:08:46,475 --> 01:08:50,043
trust-fund babies wherever I go.

1397
01:08:50,078 --> 01:08:52,579
I'll take this house right here.

1398
01:08:52,614 --> 01:08:55,582
It's not too
ostentatious for me.

1399
01:08:55,617 --> 01:08:58,017
¶

1400
01:09:04,292 --> 01:09:06,025
I've been working
on a musical.

1401
01:09:06,061 --> 01:09:08,761
It's based
on my brother's life.

1402
01:09:08,797 --> 01:09:11,231
It's New York in the '80s,

1403
01:09:11,266 --> 01:09:14,801
the club scene,
the music scene,

1404
01:09:14,836 --> 01:09:17,604
the joy and drama
of the '80s

1405
01:09:17,639 --> 01:09:22,275
and what people went
through because of AIDS.

1406
01:09:23,845 --> 01:09:27,480
My friend Kate Rigg
wrote the book.

1407
01:09:27,516 --> 01:09:30,650
Kate Rigg: The great love of
her life was her brother, Howie,

1408
01:09:30,685 --> 01:09:32,085
and he was such
an interesting guy,

1409
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,320
and he was talented
and a little crazy,

1410
01:09:34,356 --> 01:09:36,489
but it's not just about Howie,
it's about her having to

1411
01:09:36,525 --> 01:09:39,225
keep living after
her brother dies.

1412
01:09:39,261 --> 01:09:42,495
Carole: So far,
we've done some workshops

1413
01:09:42,531 --> 01:09:44,797
where we've worked on
the music.

1414
01:09:44,833 --> 01:09:47,667
We've worked on the script
with several actors.

1415
01:09:47,702 --> 01:09:49,302
¶ ...You push it ¶

1416
01:09:49,337 --> 01:09:51,070
¶ On the line ¶

1417
01:09:51,106 --> 01:09:53,339
Carole: So, now we have
to go get funding to do

1418
01:09:53,375 --> 01:09:56,376
a concert performance
and invite producers.

1419
01:09:59,514 --> 01:10:01,681
I think what we have is great.
The music is phenomenal.

1420
01:10:01,716 --> 01:10:03,283
I think the writing
is phenomenal,

1421
01:10:03,318 --> 01:10:04,751
the direction is phenomenal,
and I really just think

1422
01:10:04,786 --> 01:10:06,352
that we have to invite them
and they will come--

1423
01:10:06,388 --> 01:10:08,354
- Woman: Yes.
- --and they will see.

1424
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:10,690
Like, allow the quality of
the work to speak for itself.

1425
01:10:10,725 --> 01:10:14,260
The younger generation,
like, people my age and below,

1426
01:10:14,296 --> 01:10:18,298
are like, we didn't
grow up with the role models

1427
01:10:18,333 --> 01:10:20,466
that we could have because
of what happened in the '80s

1428
01:10:20,502 --> 01:10:21,868
and with the AIDS epidemic,

1429
01:10:21,903 --> 01:10:23,870
and it's, like,
stories like this that, like,

1430
01:10:23,905 --> 01:10:25,872
allow for the younger
generation to be like,

1431
01:10:25,907 --> 01:10:27,774
"This is what happened
before you were here."

1432
01:10:27,809 --> 01:10:31,010
Kate:
This generation of adults now

1433
01:10:31,046 --> 01:10:34,681
has grown up trans,
queer, fluid, non-binary,

1434
01:10:34,716 --> 01:10:38,651
but they were
relating to that story of,

1435
01:10:38,687 --> 01:10:42,288
like, queer liberation,
sex positivity,

1436
01:10:42,324 --> 01:10:46,059
and all the stuff that Carole
was espousing in the '80s.

1437
01:10:46,094 --> 01:10:49,028
I mean, it's still,
unfortunately, necessary now.

1438
01:10:58,006 --> 01:11:00,206
Male host: Whenever I meet up
with you again,

1439
01:11:00,242 --> 01:11:03,076
you were never where
I last left you.

1440
01:11:03,111 --> 01:11:04,978
You're on the West Coast,
you're in London,

1441
01:11:05,013 --> 01:11:07,080
you're in Toronto.

1442
01:11:07,115 --> 01:11:08,881
Do you have any place
that you sort of call home

1443
01:11:08,917 --> 01:11:10,917
or are you on the road and in
hotels a lot?

1444
01:11:10,952 --> 01:11:13,253
Carole: Um, I'm just, yeah,
I'm nowhere, really.

1445
01:11:13,288 --> 01:11:14,921
Female host: Oh, you're just no
fixed address?

1446
01:11:14,956 --> 01:11:16,823
Yeah. I'm in transit.

1447
01:11:16,858 --> 01:11:17,857
Female host:
Okay.

1448
01:11:17,892 --> 01:11:20,226
(beeping)

1449
01:11:23,932 --> 01:11:26,566
Everybody's gotta
come in with me, or...

1450
01:11:26,601 --> 01:11:30,103
¶

1451
01:11:33,141 --> 01:11:34,574
(chuckling)

1452
01:11:34,609 --> 01:11:37,277
Being a true artist,
I think it's cost me

1453
01:11:37,312 --> 01:11:39,646
some stability in life.

1454
01:11:41,283 --> 01:11:45,952
My greatest struggle is
just trying to earn a living

1455
01:11:45,987 --> 01:11:47,687
and housing insecurity.

1456
01:11:50,392 --> 01:11:55,194
I moved back to LA
a little over a year ago,

1457
01:11:55,230 --> 01:11:58,631
but I'm only there this time
because the rent's cheap,

1458
01:11:58,667 --> 01:12:00,800
and I'm trying to find
an apartment in New York

1459
01:12:00,835 --> 01:12:02,201
because of this musical.

1460
01:12:03,638 --> 01:12:07,607
¶

1461
01:12:10,078 --> 01:12:13,079
This is my main storage unit,
and then I have, like,

1462
01:12:13,114 --> 01:12:15,615
a closet in Toronto
that's got clothes in it.

1463
01:12:15,650 --> 01:12:18,051
God, I have a lot of stuff.

1464
01:12:18,086 --> 01:12:22,055
This is normally
to ship art in,

1465
01:12:22,090 --> 01:12:24,891
but I just move the wheels

1466
01:12:24,926 --> 01:12:26,926
and use it as
a giant coffee table.

1467
01:12:26,961 --> 01:12:28,061
Director:
And what's in it?

1468
01:12:28,096 --> 01:12:29,896
My gold
and platinum albums.

1469
01:12:31,366 --> 01:12:34,000
¶

1470
01:12:38,773 --> 01:12:40,940
Faded memories!

1471
01:12:43,311 --> 01:12:44,911
Ooh, sheet music.

1472
01:12:44,946 --> 01:12:46,245
I'm just very worried about

1473
01:12:46,281 --> 01:12:48,047
preserving all
this stuff though.

1474
01:12:50,585 --> 01:12:51,818
Kevan!

1475
01:12:56,591 --> 01:12:58,124
Let's see.

1476
01:12:58,159 --> 01:13:00,059
Oh.

1477
01:13:00,095 --> 01:13:04,097
1983 Junos.

1478
01:13:04,132 --> 01:13:06,632
Alan Thicke: Now in the category
of Best Female Vocalist,

1479
01:13:06,668 --> 01:13:08,901
here are the nominees.

1480
01:13:08,937 --> 01:13:10,770
Or the nominettes.

1481
01:13:10,805 --> 01:13:13,139
"Jessie Burns,
Joni Mitchell,

1482
01:13:13,174 --> 01:13:16,442
Anne Murray, Carole Pope,
and Shari Ulrich."

1483
01:13:16,478 --> 01:13:18,077
And the winner is...

1484
01:13:19,814 --> 01:13:23,249
Female Vocalist of the Year,
Carole Pope!

1485
01:13:23,284 --> 01:13:24,450
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1486
01:13:24,486 --> 01:13:27,086
Oh, my God!
It's Carole Pope! Woo!

1487
01:13:27,122 --> 01:13:29,088
Director:
Wow, you beat Joni Mitchell!

1488
01:13:29,124 --> 01:13:30,089
Yeah.

1489
01:13:30,125 --> 01:13:35,061
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1490
01:13:44,672 --> 01:13:47,807
Carole: Thank you.
How tasteful of you all.

1491
01:13:47,842 --> 01:13:49,142
I really can't believe it.

1492
01:13:49,177 --> 01:13:51,644
I'd like to thank True North,

1493
01:13:51,679 --> 01:13:55,381
CBS, Bernie Finkelstein,
and Kevan Staples.

1494
01:13:55,417 --> 01:13:56,716
Thank you very much!

1495
01:13:56,751 --> 01:14:00,286
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1496
01:14:00,321 --> 01:14:02,455
k.d. lang: Obviously,
she paved the way for me,

1497
01:14:02,490 --> 01:14:05,825
but Carole's position of
being the person pushing,

1498
01:14:05,860 --> 01:14:08,394
pushing, pushing,
had pros and cons.

1499
01:14:10,598 --> 01:14:12,999
Interviewer: Now, Carole,
you've been described as

1500
01:14:13,034 --> 01:14:15,802
the 1980s' Mae West,

1501
01:14:15,837 --> 01:14:17,036
and most of your writing...

1502
01:14:17,071 --> 01:14:18,471
(snorting)

1503
01:14:18,506 --> 01:14:19,806
...as well as your
on-stage performance,

1504
01:14:19,841 --> 01:14:21,407
is done in very sexual roles.

1505
01:14:23,578 --> 01:14:27,346
I mean, I was very typecast as,
like, a "raunch queen."

1506
01:14:27,382 --> 01:14:29,048
Well, most of
our lyrics are sexual,

1507
01:14:29,083 --> 01:14:32,652
but it's really sexual satire,
and if people see me,

1508
01:14:32,687 --> 01:14:35,488
they can see that it's
done with a sense of humour.

1509
01:14:35,523 --> 01:14:37,356
Back a number of years ago
when you were singing

1510
01:14:37,392 --> 01:14:41,394
"High School Confidential,"
and one of the lines in the song

1511
01:14:41,429 --> 01:14:43,262
has to do with
creaming your jeans.

1512
01:14:43,298 --> 01:14:46,365
Carole: I just was
annoyed with the media

1513
01:14:46,401 --> 01:14:49,735
and being typecast
and not being appreciated

1514
01:14:49,771 --> 01:14:51,270
as artists who evolve.

1515
01:14:51,306 --> 01:14:53,639
¶

1516
01:14:58,379 --> 01:15:02,281
Kevan: I think that Rough Trade
had reached this level

1517
01:15:02,317 --> 01:15:04,016
where we'd run
the gamut in Canada,

1518
01:15:04,052 --> 01:15:07,119
but we couldn't
get a record deal in

1519
01:15:07,155 --> 01:15:09,355
the United States or Europe.

1520
01:15:09,390 --> 01:15:12,425
Carole: We were just
frustrated in a lot of ways,

1521
01:15:12,460 --> 01:15:16,262
but also I wasn't
like anybody else

1522
01:15:16,297 --> 01:15:18,764
and I was kind of androgynous
and kind of...

1523
01:15:20,468 --> 01:15:24,237
You know, I don't know
if record companies got us.

1524
01:15:24,272 --> 01:15:28,074
Dudes only like lesbians
when they've got big tits

1525
01:15:28,109 --> 01:15:32,078
and pretty nails. For men who
run the American labels,

1526
01:15:32,113 --> 01:15:34,046
Carole shows up,
she's, like, kind of a hot woman

1527
01:15:34,082 --> 01:15:36,282
but she's also a dude,
and you're like, "The fuck?

1528
01:15:36,317 --> 01:15:38,784
Like, I don't understand.
Like, does not compute."

1529
01:15:38,820 --> 01:15:40,219
People don't
throw money at that,

1530
01:15:40,255 --> 01:15:42,889
'cause it doesn't
make them feel comfortable.

1531
01:15:42,924 --> 01:15:44,023
It's threatening.

1532
01:15:45,426 --> 01:15:47,593
Okay, this is
a song about a slut.

1533
01:15:47,629 --> 01:15:51,764
They're still chasing dreams
and never ever

1534
01:15:51,799 --> 01:15:53,666
really able to realize them,

1535
01:15:53,701 --> 01:15:55,835
because one of
the things with Rough Trade,

1536
01:15:55,870 --> 01:15:57,770
the shock value was great,

1537
01:15:57,805 --> 01:16:00,339
but over time,
with the winds of change

1538
01:16:00,375 --> 01:16:03,242
in terms of
understanding sexuality,

1539
01:16:03,278 --> 01:16:05,811
embracing different sexualities,

1540
01:16:05,847 --> 01:16:07,680
it no longer was shocking.

1541
01:16:07,715 --> 01:16:09,849
So, one of the biggest things
that helped put them out there

1542
01:16:09,884 --> 01:16:13,619
became not really
that important.

1543
01:16:13,655 --> 01:16:15,187
(camera clicking)

1544
01:16:15,223 --> 01:16:18,291
Carole: Yeah, I was always
ready to move to New York or LA

1545
01:16:18,326 --> 01:16:20,293
and, you know, really go for it,

1546
01:16:20,328 --> 01:16:24,630
but Kevan was not
into leaving Toronto.

1547
01:16:24,666 --> 01:16:27,433
I had just had a daughter.

1548
01:16:27,468 --> 01:16:30,336
So, I was perfectly happy
to stay here in Toronto.

1549
01:16:30,371 --> 01:16:33,139
Carole: I had to go to LA
and see if I could

1550
01:16:33,174 --> 01:16:34,340
make something happen.

1551
01:16:35,877 --> 01:16:37,009
Kevan:
We'd had it.

1552
01:16:37,045 --> 01:16:39,979
We felt we could go no further.

1553
01:16:40,014 --> 01:16:43,549
¶

1554
01:16:43,585 --> 01:16:44,951
(audience applauding)

1555
01:16:44,986 --> 01:16:48,688
Well, this is the very
last performance...

1556
01:16:48,723 --> 01:16:50,489
(audience cheering, applauding)

1557
01:16:50,525 --> 01:16:51,824
...of Rough Trade.

1558
01:16:51,859 --> 01:16:55,094
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1559
01:16:55,129 --> 01:16:57,730
You people are animals
and I love you for it.

1560
01:16:57,765 --> 01:16:59,599
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1561
01:16:59,634 --> 01:17:01,567
¶ When you look at me ¶

1562
01:17:01,603 --> 01:17:03,102
¶ It's like any grade B-movie ¶

1563
01:17:03,137 --> 01:17:06,505
¶ I whisper, "Hello, Johnny" ¶

1564
01:17:06,541 --> 01:17:09,108
¶ Don't stop, not now ¶

1565
01:17:09,143 --> 01:17:12,078
¶ Don't stop, Johnny,
don't stop, Johnny ¶

1566
01:17:12,113 --> 01:17:14,747
¶ I know,
(Don't stop) ¶

1567
01:17:14,782 --> 01:17:17,016
I do remember that night.

1568
01:17:17,051 --> 01:17:19,352
<i> ¶ Don't stop, Johnny</i>
<i> Don't stop, Johnny ¶</i>

1569
01:17:19,387 --> 01:17:21,020
Yeah, it was very--

1570
01:17:21,055 --> 01:17:22,054
<i> ¶ Don't stop ¶</i>

1571
01:17:22,090 --> 01:17:23,689
It's very moving.

1572
01:17:23,725 --> 01:17:25,458
¶

1573
01:17:25,493 --> 01:17:26,592
Yeah, it's sad.

1574
01:17:26,628 --> 01:17:29,562
¶

1575
01:17:29,597 --> 01:17:31,097
I think in retrospect,

1576
01:17:31,132 --> 01:17:33,633
I wouldn't have
broken up the band.

1577
01:17:33,668 --> 01:17:36,969
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1578
01:17:37,005 --> 01:17:40,373
Oh, maybe we just should
have taken a break.

1579
01:17:40,408 --> 01:17:45,378
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1580
01:17:48,483 --> 01:17:49,782
Director:
Any regrets?

1581
01:17:52,186 --> 01:17:55,821
Yeah, that's a good question.
Any regrets? I mean...

1582
01:17:55,857 --> 01:17:59,392
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1583
01:17:59,427 --> 01:18:00,993
If I have a regret,
maybe I should have just

1584
01:18:01,029 --> 01:18:02,261
kept writing with Carole.

1585
01:18:02,296 --> 01:18:04,230
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1586
01:18:04,265 --> 01:18:06,198
¶

1587
01:18:22,650 --> 01:18:26,986
I grew up hearing
Rough Trade on the radio.

1588
01:18:27,021 --> 01:18:29,355
Decades have gone by,

1589
01:18:29,390 --> 01:18:31,957
but as soon as
I heard her voice again,

1590
01:18:31,993 --> 01:18:33,325
it gives me chills.

1591
01:18:33,361 --> 01:18:36,262
The fact that nobody was
representing Carole's music

1592
01:18:36,297 --> 01:18:38,864
for sync was shocking to me.

1593
01:18:38,900 --> 01:18:42,468
We would love to pitch
your solo material for sync.

1594
01:18:42,503 --> 01:18:46,372
You just have such a distinct,
unique voice, and...

1595
01:18:46,407 --> 01:18:51,043
What we try to do is find other
streams of revenue for songs.

1596
01:18:51,079 --> 01:18:54,447
So, we pitch them for
sync placements in a TV show

1597
01:18:54,482 --> 01:18:56,449
or a film or an ad.

1598
01:18:56,484 --> 01:19:00,986
We are a creative publisher,
and what we love to do is,

1599
01:19:01,022 --> 01:19:03,055
you know,
get people writing to briefs.

1600
01:19:03,091 --> 01:19:07,460
So, how much time do you
actually have for songwriting?

1601
01:19:07,495 --> 01:19:09,028
- Yeah, I just want to write.
- Yeah.

1602
01:19:09,063 --> 01:19:10,830
I do want to write music,
and I need to write

1603
01:19:10,865 --> 01:19:12,331
more material for myself.

1604
01:19:12,366 --> 01:19:15,401
And so, yeah,
I'm totally open to whatever.

1605
01:19:15,436 --> 01:19:18,304
- Okay, cool.
- As you keep writing songs,

1606
01:19:18,339 --> 01:19:21,040
like, just send them
our way and, yeah.

1607
01:19:21,075 --> 01:19:22,708
I really like what you're doing

1608
01:19:22,744 --> 01:19:25,478
and that you're such
a creative publishing entity.

1609
01:19:25,513 --> 01:19:27,046
Sync me, baby.

1610
01:19:27,081 --> 01:19:28,981
- (laughing)
- Kim: Let's go!

1611
01:19:29,016 --> 01:19:31,250
¶

1612
01:19:58,146 --> 01:19:59,078
Man:
Hey, Tim.

1613
01:19:59,113 --> 01:20:00,513
Tim:
Good morning.

1614
01:20:04,585 --> 01:20:06,018
(gasping)
Thank you!

1615
01:20:06,053 --> 01:20:07,052
Butter tart.

1616
01:20:07,088 --> 01:20:08,420
My favourite.

1617
01:20:13,327 --> 01:20:15,928
Tim:
We spend a lot of time together.

1618
01:20:15,963 --> 01:20:17,730
The show is,
like, the easy part.

1619
01:20:17,765 --> 01:20:20,232
You're with these people
the other, you know,

1620
01:20:20,268 --> 01:20:23,736
22 and a half hours.
So, you become very close, and--

1621
01:20:23,771 --> 01:20:26,539
Yeah, or you want
to kill some of them.

1622
01:20:26,574 --> 01:20:27,606
Yes. What?

1623
01:20:27,642 --> 01:20:29,408
(Carole laughing)

1624
01:20:29,443 --> 01:20:31,644
¶

1625
01:20:42,456 --> 01:20:44,590
- (audience applauding)
- Carole: Thank you!

1626
01:20:44,625 --> 01:20:47,092
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1627
01:20:47,128 --> 01:20:49,762
So, my darling,
darling Kevan Staples,

1628
01:20:49,797 --> 01:20:51,397
he's in surgery.

1629
01:20:51,432 --> 01:20:54,600
So, everybody
should send him love

1630
01:20:54,635 --> 01:20:56,936
'cause he's
such an amazing person.

1631
01:20:56,971 --> 01:20:59,805
He's been having a lot
of health issues lately.

1632
01:20:59,841 --> 01:21:02,708
So, I'm thinking of him.

1633
01:21:02,743 --> 01:21:06,579
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1634
01:21:06,614 --> 01:21:08,881
¶

1635
01:21:19,293 --> 01:21:21,961
¶

1636
01:21:36,878 --> 01:21:40,446
Kate: We are so happy to have
you here for the first ever

1637
01:21:40,481 --> 01:21:43,449
public anything of
"Rough Trade: The Musical."

1638
01:21:43,484 --> 01:21:45,050
(audience cheering, applauding)

1639
01:21:46,654 --> 01:21:48,020
So, that's Howard Pope.

1640
01:21:48,055 --> 01:21:52,925
He unfortunately
succumbed to AIDS in 1995.

1641
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:56,028
Carole: There's always gonna
be an open wound about Howard,

1642
01:21:56,063 --> 01:21:59,031
because he died
such a tragic death,

1643
01:21:59,066 --> 01:22:00,766
but I really want
this musical to go,

1644
01:22:00,801 --> 01:22:05,104
because I'm bringing him
to life a little bit.

1645
01:22:05,139 --> 01:22:09,875
¶ The hard smile,
it's voice going on ¶

1646
01:22:09,911 --> 01:22:11,010
It's a celebration
of Howard's life.

1647
01:22:11,045 --> 01:22:12,778
¶ ...on glass ¶

1648
01:22:12,813 --> 01:22:17,049
¶ All touch, but no contact ¶

1649
01:22:17,084 --> 01:22:19,885
I want people to know about

1650
01:22:19,921 --> 01:22:23,289
the joy and drama of the '80s.

1651
01:22:23,324 --> 01:22:27,426
I think it's a story
that needs to be told,

1652
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:32,798
especially now with
all the sheer pig fuckery

1653
01:22:32,833 --> 01:22:33,933
that's going on.

1654
01:22:36,504 --> 01:22:39,071
I think we really have
to unite as a community,

1655
01:22:39,106 --> 01:22:41,006
now more than ever.

1656
01:22:41,042 --> 01:22:43,542
We are "Rough Trade,
The Musical" in concert!

1657
01:22:43,577 --> 01:22:45,210
Thanks for being here!

1658
01:22:45,246 --> 01:22:49,481
(audience cheering,
applauding)

1659
01:22:49,517 --> 01:22:53,385
...One in 1900 was women...

1660
01:22:53,421 --> 01:22:56,388
It was just amazing working
with all these queer kids

1661
01:22:56,424 --> 01:22:59,858
in New York.
I mean, it was just so moving.

1662
01:22:59,894 --> 01:23:01,894
Carole and I,
when we first started out,

1663
01:23:01,929 --> 01:23:04,763
I think we always
dreamed of being in a musical.

1664
01:23:04,799 --> 01:23:06,365
Like, we both
loved musicals, so.

1665
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:07,666
Yeah.

1666
01:23:07,702 --> 01:23:09,268
Rough Trade was
equally about, like,

1667
01:23:09,303 --> 01:23:11,537
"One day we're going to be
in a musical," you know?

1668
01:23:11,572 --> 01:23:13,572
- "One day we'll write a show."
- (laughing)

1669
01:23:13,607 --> 01:23:15,541
A dream come true!

1670
01:23:15,576 --> 01:23:16,842
Carole:
A dream!

1671
01:23:16,877 --> 01:23:18,610
An impossible dream?
I think not.

1672
01:23:18,646 --> 01:23:20,112
No, I think not.

1673
01:23:20,147 --> 01:23:21,580
How are you doing?

1674
01:23:21,615 --> 01:23:23,115
I'm doing okay.

1675
01:23:23,150 --> 01:23:25,784
All the physical aspects,
of course, are annoying.

1676
01:23:25,820 --> 01:23:29,755
Like, right now, I can't play
the piano because of this hand.

1677
01:23:29,790 --> 01:23:32,591
So, that's annoying,
but then, you know,

1678
01:23:32,626 --> 01:23:36,562
we have a beautiful day
like this and everything's good,

1679
01:23:36,597 --> 01:23:39,298
and sometimes you start
thinking about legacy,

1680
01:23:39,333 --> 01:23:41,467
and sometimes you think
about things that you'd like to

1681
01:23:41,502 --> 01:23:45,471
do before, you know,
and who matters in your life,

1682
01:23:45,506 --> 01:23:47,706
and, yeah, all that stuff.

1683
01:23:47,742 --> 01:23:51,076
I was thinking about you,

1684
01:23:51,112 --> 01:23:52,644
and I think about
the relationship a lot,

1685
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:56,849
and how important it is
to both of our lives.

1686
01:23:59,186 --> 01:24:01,120
I think my life would be
entirely different without her

1687
01:24:01,155 --> 01:24:03,789
in it, of course,
and, you know, conversely,

1688
01:24:03,824 --> 01:24:05,624
hers would be different
without me in it.

1689
01:24:10,097 --> 01:24:13,899
There's a chemistry there
that is quite clearly palpable.

1690
01:24:13,934 --> 01:24:15,868
You know, it's like you
complete each other.

1691
01:24:20,841 --> 01:24:22,374
(chuckling)

1692
01:24:24,678 --> 01:24:25,677
Kevan:
I love you.

1693
01:24:25,713 --> 01:24:26,812
Carole: I love you, too.

1694
01:24:26,847 --> 01:24:28,180
Kevan: You're my hero.
You're my hero.

1695
01:24:28,215 --> 01:24:29,148
Carole:
You're my guy.

1696
01:24:29,183 --> 01:24:31,417
¶

1697
01:24:43,731 --> 01:24:46,065
¶

1698
01:24:55,142 --> 01:24:57,443
See, it's fabulous
driving with Timmy,

1699
01:24:57,478 --> 01:24:59,545
'cause we go the scenic way.

1700
01:24:59,580 --> 01:25:01,480
- It's beautiful.
- Yeah.

1701
01:25:01,515 --> 01:25:04,116
Did you hear back from Andrew?

1702
01:25:04,151 --> 01:25:05,851
Yes, I talked to him.

1703
01:25:05,886 --> 01:25:08,220
He's all game.
He's gonna start programming.

1704
01:25:08,255 --> 01:25:10,055
- We'll make a set list.
- Yeah.

1705
01:25:10,091 --> 01:25:11,690
We'll do "Transcend."
We'll do...

1706
01:25:11,725 --> 01:25:13,225
Tim:
Yeah, everything.

1707
01:25:13,260 --> 01:25:14,593
..."Play Fisty."

1708
01:25:14,628 --> 01:25:16,595
We'll do whatever,
our funkiest tunes.

1709
01:25:19,433 --> 01:25:21,066
Tim: We've never talked
about the end game.

1710
01:25:21,102 --> 01:25:25,204
It's just always
next week, next month,

1711
01:25:25,239 --> 01:25:27,072
'cause there's always
projects on the go.

1712
01:25:27,108 --> 01:25:29,842
Carole will
always be performing.

1713
01:25:29,877 --> 01:25:31,777
I just can't see her stopping,

1714
01:25:31,812 --> 01:25:33,345
'cause it's who she is.

1715
01:25:38,819 --> 01:25:41,887
Carole: I'm proud that I got
to work with Kevan

1716
01:25:41,922 --> 01:25:44,690
and record some iconic songs

1717
01:25:44,725 --> 01:25:47,793
and that I had a voice
and I got it out there.

1718
01:25:50,598 --> 01:25:53,065
Music is not a steady climb.

1719
01:25:53,100 --> 01:25:56,368
Any kind of art
is not a steady climb,

1720
01:25:56,403 --> 01:25:59,304
but she's as superb now
and as unique

1721
01:25:59,340 --> 01:26:02,141
and as magnificent
as she ever was.

1722
01:26:02,176 --> 01:26:04,076
George: The human experience
has always been

1723
01:26:04,111 --> 01:26:06,211
about the quest for truth.

1724
01:26:06,247 --> 01:26:09,982
When some real authentic
truth pops out, you know it.

1725
01:26:10,017 --> 01:26:13,785
k.d. lang: To see the comfort
and the strength

1726
01:26:13,821 --> 01:26:16,488
and the commitment to

1727
01:26:16,524 --> 01:26:19,458
her being herself,

1728
01:26:19,493 --> 01:26:21,894
it was like the keys
to the Porsche.

1729
01:26:21,929 --> 01:26:24,263
Peaches:
When I saw her,

1730
01:26:24,298 --> 01:26:27,232
I just knew something
would change forever.

1731
01:26:29,537 --> 01:26:31,503
Carole: I don't know what
I set out to do in life,

1732
01:26:31,539 --> 01:26:34,306
I just, you know,
wanted to make art,

1733
01:26:34,341 --> 01:26:36,074
and I'm still doing that.

1734
01:26:36,110 --> 01:26:38,310
It's just ever evolving.

1735
01:26:38,345 --> 01:26:42,881
¶

1736
01:26:45,219 --> 01:26:48,086
I really don't want to be
in a rock group forever,

1737
01:26:48,122 --> 01:26:49,988
'cause I'm getting old, and I--

1738
01:26:50,024 --> 01:26:51,290
I don't think
I can last that long.

1739
01:26:51,325 --> 01:26:52,658
(chuckling)

1740
01:26:52,693 --> 01:26:57,996
¶

1741
01:26:58,032 --> 01:27:01,934
I want you, right now,
to Google "Carole Pope"

1742
01:27:01,969 --> 01:27:03,435
and then I want you
to go on Spotify

1743
01:27:03,470 --> 01:27:05,671
and I want you to
smoke a big fatty

1744
01:27:05,706 --> 01:27:09,641
and listen to
what she has to say.

1745
01:27:09,677 --> 01:27:13,378
"There's a ground swell sending
shockwaves through the world."

1746
01:27:13,414 --> 01:27:15,614
"Is it the coming
of the antichrist?"

1747
01:27:15,649 --> 01:27:19,051
Uh, here's my picture with
me and Carole in the '80s.

1748
01:27:19,086 --> 01:27:21,720
I was obsessed actually.
(laughing)

1749
01:27:21,755 --> 01:27:25,324
I stripped to Carole Pope's
"High School Confidential"

1750
01:27:25,359 --> 01:27:27,125
in my high school gym.

1751
01:27:27,161 --> 01:27:29,828
"What's that principal
doing with her?"

1752
01:27:29,863 --> 01:27:32,331
"Who's that guy?
Is he screwing with her?"

1753
01:27:32,366 --> 01:27:36,635
"What's her perfume?
Tigress by Faberge."

1754
01:27:36,670 --> 01:27:39,171
¶ It makes me cream my jeans ¶

1755
01:27:39,206 --> 01:27:41,807
¶ When she comes my way ¶

1756
01:27:41,842 --> 01:27:43,976
You know who AI
is never gonna replace?

1757
01:27:44,011 --> 01:27:45,477
Uh, fucking Carole Pope.

1758
01:27:45,512 --> 01:27:49,715
"She pulled her knees up
spread eagle on the bed."

1759
01:27:49,750 --> 01:27:52,150
Woo! Oh, my God!

1760
01:27:52,186 --> 01:27:55,520
I guess I wasn't really
listening to these lyrics.

1761
01:27:55,556 --> 01:27:57,689
Viva Carole Pope.

1762
01:27:57,725 --> 01:28:01,393
¶ I wanna rip the clothes off
your back ¶

1763
01:28:03,264 --> 01:28:05,163
¶ You know I need you ¶

1764
01:28:05,199 --> 01:28:07,065
¶ Can't tell ya how much ¶

1765
01:28:07,101 --> 01:28:09,034
¶ Emotional blackmail ¶

1766
01:28:09,069 --> 01:28:10,602
¶ Got me in its clutch ¶

1767
01:28:11,605 --> 01:28:14,740
¶ What the hell do you want? ¶

1768
01:28:14,775 --> 01:28:18,744
¶ I'm paralyzed
when you call my name ¶

1769
01:28:18,779 --> 01:28:21,980
¶ I'm traumatized,
now you're to blame... ¶